# What groups don't toast? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058 "2009-05-11T17:16:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/1 "2009-05-11T17:16:28Z")
A few weeks back, I was out to lunch with a couple of coworkers from another office and some of their family members. A few of us clinked glasses with a “cheers to a job well done,” but when I turned to my other coworker and her relative and prompted her with my glass tilted in her direction, she shook her head and said, “We don’t toast.” I’m now deathly curious what groups don’t toast and why. I’ve tried some random Googling, but it mostly pops up pages of toasting etiquette and toaster reviews, which are obviously not terribly helpful. I know of Christian and Muslim denominations that don’t drink, but I haven’t head of anyone who wouldn’t toast with a non-alcoholic beverage. So, does anyone know of any (presumably religious) groups that don’t toast, and why they refrain? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/2 "2009-05-11T17:19:50Z")
Did she offer an explanation? This board never fails to offer me examples of bizarre behavior. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/3 "2009-05-11T17:21:56Z")
Hungarians refused to clink classes until October 6, 1999, as a remembrance of the [Martyrs of Arad.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13_Martyrs_of_Arad) Basically, it had something to do with the Austrians clinking glasses in celebration of the Hungarian defeat, and the Hungarians vowed not to clink glasses for 150 years. There are still plenty of people in the area who won’t clink glasses. The usual custom is to say cheers, tip your glass in the direction of the person you are toasting while looking them directly in the eye, then tapping the bottom of the glass on the table before taking a drink. I lived in Hungary from 1998-2003, so was there when the 150 year time limit expired. It was definitely frowned upon to clink glasses when I got there, but by the time I left, it was commonplace. But I’m sure many still hold to the old tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/4 "2009-05-11T17:24:58Z")
IIRC, the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not partake in toasts. Something to do with it being a way to invoke a pagan blessing or something. [Here’s](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090118221820AAywKXD) the only link 10 seconds of searching unearthed. (Yahoo Answers = not good cite.) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/5 "2009-05-11T17:39:19Z")
[The Royal Navy stay seated during the loyal toast.](http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/info_sheet_loyal_toast.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/6 "2009-05-11T18:11:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Hungarians refused to clink classes until October 6, 1999 Hrm, well, the coworker in question is an African-American from Chicago, so I’m thinking she’s not going with the Hungarian custom. 😃 **Labrador Deceiver** , she didn’t say why, and I didn’t think it polite to ask since she didn’t offer an explanation. **Jodi** , you could be on to something with the Jehovah’s Witness thing. Here’s another not-hugely-authoritative source that references JWs [not participating in toasts](http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2009/4/Witness-Christian-Marital-Conflict-2.htm). (Also, apparently the guy asking the question likes to “study the Bile.”) > [@](#): > > I knew that occasionally all present are expected to stand and take part in a toast. I had learned that allegiance is due only to Jehovah, and toasting was much more than simply showing respect. […] Glenys, on the other hand, accompanied her husband to such a function, but she watched the officers at the head of the table. When she saw them preparing to toast, she discreetly left for the rest room! ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/7 "2009-05-11T18:20:24Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > IIRC, the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not partake in toasts. Something to do with it being a way to invoke a pagan blessing or something. > > [Here’s](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090118221820AAywKXD) the only link 10 seconds of searching unearthed. (Yahoo Answers = not good cite.) Certainly in Scandinavia where the toast is “Skål” and refers to the drinking of the blood of the vanquished from their skulls (skål), sometimes and in later periods blood being replaced by mead or other alcoholic beverages. As this was a celebration of murder, Jehova’s Witnesses will have no part in it, even though the tradition has long since been discontinued. Couldn’t say if they have objections to other forms of toasting. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/8 "2009-05-11T18:32:39Z")
> [@Myglaren](#): > > Certainly in Scandinavia where the toast is “Skål” and refers to the drinking of the blood of the vanquished from their skulls (skål), sometimes and in later periods blood being replaced by mead or other alcoholic beverages. Do you have a cite for that? Sounds more than a bit apocryphal to me. Wiktionary gives the etymology of skål as being from Old Norse skál (“‘bowl’”), which makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/9 "2009-05-11T19:17:59Z")
No cite but I used to live in Sweden and knew some Witnesses there. The bowl mentioned was fashioned from the skull. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/10 "2009-05-11T19:56:59Z")
> [@Myglaren](#): > > No cite but I used to live in Sweden and knew some Witnesses there. > The bowl mentioned was fashioned from the skull. The Online Etymology Dictionary says: 1600, from Dan. skaal “a toast,” lit. “bowl, cup,” from O.N., originally a cup made from a shell, from P.Gmc. \*skelo, from PIE \*(s)kel- “to cut” (see shell). The word first appears in Scottish Eng., and may have been connected to the visit of James VI of Scotland to Denmark in 1589. Skull is probably ultimately related, but not the same. The skull folk etymology is probably common among the JWs. As far as I can tell, a lot of the “don’t do it! It’s pagan!” is not so much historical puritanism as something that reinforces contemporary identity: the act of avoiding common celebrations reminds JWs that they are special, different, and not distracted by the fleshy pleasures of this world. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/11 "2009-05-11T20:23:57Z")
**Myglaren** : So some JWs told you an otherwise unsupported bit of history that backs up their reasoning? What a shock. 😉 **Dr. Drake** : I’m with you on this one. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/12 "2009-05-11T21:03:11Z")
As I was taught, the clinking of glasses was intended to wake the spirit of the wine, much like knocking on wood to wake the spirit of the tree. The intention is to ask the support of the pagan Gods, or smaller powers for whatever purpose is mentioned in the toast. I can see how many a fundamentalist denomination would have a problem with it - especially Christian Fundamentalists, who tend to be concerned about stamping out thoughtless pagan references in their day to day lives. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/13 "2009-05-11T21:16:03Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The Online Etymology Dictionary says: 1600, from Dan. skaal “a toast,” lit. “bowl, cup,” from O.N., originally a cup made from a shell, from P.Gmc. \*skelo, from PIE \*(s)kel- “to cut” (see shell). The word first appears in Scottish Eng., and may have been connected to the visit of James VI of Scotland to Denmark in 1589. Skull is probably ultimately related, but not the same. That’s a shame. I was going to start yelling “Skal!” during toasts. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/14 "2009-05-11T21:27:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Hrm, well, the coworker in question is an African-American from Chicago, so I’m thinking she’s not going with the Hungarian custom. 😃 That’s probably a safe assumption. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/15 "2009-05-11T21:46:38Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I can see how many a fundamentalist denomination would have a problem with it - especially Christian Fundamentalists, who tend to be concerned about stamping out thoughtless pagan references in their day to day lives. I think that’s probably grossly inaccurate. I’ve never heard of a fundamentalist Christian who refused to toast. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/16 "2009-05-12T06:37:49Z")
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir refused to say the words “here’s a toast to the host” as part of the air [Air Force’s song](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_U.S._Air_Force_(song))and substituted the words “here’s a prayer to those”. They also substituted “hell of a roar” with “terrible roar”. > [@](#): > > Off we go into the wild blue yonder, > Climbing high into the sun; > Here they come zooming to meet our thunder, > At 'em boys, Give 'er the gun! > Down we dive, spouting our flame from under, > Off with one hell of a roar!\* > We live in fame or go down in flame. > Nothing can stop the U.S. Air Force! > > Minds of men fashioned a crate of thunder, > Sent it high into the blue; > Hands of men blasted the world asunder; > How they lived God only knew! (God only knew!) > Souls of men dreaming of skies to conquer > Gave us wings, ever to soar! > With scouts before and bombers galore. > Nothing’ll stop the U.S. Air Force! > > Here’s a toast to the host > Of those who love the vastness of the sky, > To a friend we send a message of his brother men who fly. > We drink to those who gave their all of old, > Then down we roar to score the rainbow’s pot of gold. > A toast to the host of men we boast, the U.S. Air Force! > > Off we go into the wild sky yonder, > Keep the wings level and true; > If you’d live to be a grey-haired wonder > Keep the nose out of the blue! > Flying men, guarding the nation’s border, > We’ll be there, followed by more! > In echelon we carry on. > Nothing will stop the U.S. Air Force! ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/17 "2009-05-12T07:29:01Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? Sounds more than a bit apocryphal to me. Seconded. Took a look at an online copy of an old edition of the Swedish Etymological Dictionary (yay Project Runeberg!) and it gives the etymology of _[skål](http://runeberg.org/svetym/0855.html)_ (“bowl”) as the Germanic _skælo_, whereas _[skalle](http://runeberg.org/svetym/0814.html)_ (“skull”) comes from the Old Norse root _skallan-_. In fact, the Germanic roots of _skål_ seem to have had the exact same meaning as it does today, with no demonstrated connection to skulls at all. So, not only do we have two separate words in Swedish with no connection (and I’ll see your living in Sweden and raise you actually speaking the language), the roots of both words also have no apparent connection either. Frankly, the JWs would be better off just saying “We don’t want to” when asked why they don’t toast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/18 "2009-05-12T11:10:03Z")
The group that thinks the job was not well done? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/19 "2009-05-12T14:28:37Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > The group that thinks the job was not well done? Bwaha. Nope, she definitely though it went well–servers came back up quickly with no problems. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058/20 "2009-05-12T14:37:35Z")
She’s probably a Jehovah’s Witness. It’s the type of thing, like celebrating birthdays, they don’t do (at least in my experience). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-groups-dont-toast/496058.md?page=2)