What happend to the "Jenin massacre?"

Well, yes, but how does your living room SMELL? :wink:

On a more serious note about the smell issue, one of those articles listed in Mojo’s link claimed that some of the Palestinians were bringing animal carcasses into the camp to contribute to the smell. (Or rather, the article claimed that Israel claimed that they were…you get my point.) I’m honestly curious as to who has the expertise to determine a number of dead based on a smell - in other words, what is the basis for comparison?

On the comments about the Jerusalem POST reporting the Palestinian (exaggerated) estimates, it is worth noting that Israel has a free press. The Jerusalem POST is thus free to present whatever sides of an issue it chooses to present.

Do you suppose there were any Palestinian newspapers or presses that reported the Israeli contentions that there was no massacre, but a limited and controlled military action? Hardly likely. The Palestinians join their brethren, almost all of the Arab Moslem states, in having NO free press, only a press controlled by their government propagandists.

(* Actually, I think that ALL of the Arab Moslem states have a controlled press, but I allow that there may be a minor state that is an exception.)

Three separate questions:

Was there a massacre at Jenin?

Unequivocally “No.” Even Human Rights Watch, no Israeli apologist, asserts that the total civilian death count was only 22 civilians.

Were human rights violate during the occupation at Jenin?

Possibly. HRW believes it is probable based on interviews with Palestinians, but HRW has never seen an antiterrorism effort that it didn’t feel violated human rights. They are hardly very critical of their sources, and there is never any justification for any curtailment of any “human rights” by their way of thinking. But another thread has been had on that subject. According to HaAretz,http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=172853&sw=Jenin an IDF internal investigation regarding Jenin is still in progress and it is possible that the Comptroller will investigate further depending on IDF findings.

Before you jump and say that it is still Israel investigating itself, try to place the USA or Russia in the same position. There is a role for policing your own, and I cannnot imagine that some violations did not occur by some IDF members placed in a very scary situation. Israel is very self-critical. But a planned “humilation” did not occur. It is clear that this was an operation that, while not flawless, intended to get the terrorists and their infrastructure with a minimum of civilians and IDF soldiers harmed.

Was the media eager to believe that the IDF was guilty of a massacre and to publicize such accusations broadly and in the worst possible terms, with quiet when it was determined that no such event occurred?

Of course.

Headlines of “Multiple Palestinian ‘witnesses’ to alleged massacre lied and we believed them and gave them press” do not sell ad space.

I’d like to clarify my earlier comment:

  • I am not calling Terje Roed-Larsen a “Quisling”. I was referring to Israeli spokesman Zalmon Shoval’s statement regarding Larsen’s rheotoric that Jenin was “horrific beyond belief”. I don’t think Roed-Larsen is a Quisling but I don’t think he’s an unbiased source who should be on a UN commision either.

Were there atrocities committed by Israeli troops during Jenin? I would guess there were. There was a story (I believe in the Jersalem Post, I can’t find it now) that claims that IDF soldiers executed an unarmed 17-year old in their custody. The problem is that there isn’t an good source for unbiased info and the credibility of most Palestinian sources is questionable after the outrageous claims that were initially made.