What happened to Census 2000?

techchick - back to the ‘what is this stuff good for’ part of your post. Race, gender, marital status, veteran status, income, hours worked, vehicles, bedrooms, all that stuff.

Easy, cop-out answer: ask Congress. They’re the ones that passed laws requiring that this info be gathered by the Census Bureau.

For that reason, I can’t tell you the real reason why the questions are on there. I can give you what I find to be a fairly good justification, though. I expect you may disagree with most of it, but it would be kinda boring if everybody always agreed, right? :slight_smile:

It’s worth remembering, before we jump in, that this data won’t be available for individuals or households, but only in aggregates.

Yes, the government has a lot of this stuff already. What they don’t have is the info in a way that is (a) nearly as complete as the Census can get it, or (b) in a form where one data variable can be correlated with others. And, of course, (c) some of this stuff (e.g. hours worked) may not be collected anywhere else, for all I know.

(a) Completeness: the Census can get information from parts of the population that don’t show up much on commercial databases, due to poverty, ob, or whatever. We may have various records that suggest the approximate ratio of men to women in various age groups. But after collecting data from 98% of the population, you pretty much know for sure, and you can find out if data from more limited sources has biased our samples.

Is this information useful? Sure, if you’re going to plan an elementary school or old-age home, or a whole bunch of other things.

(c) Stuff that may not be available anywhere else: how about those hours worked? Is this irrelevant to matters of public policy?

To me, they’re very relevant. Child-rearing has never been simple, but as it becomes increasingly complicated in a complex world, we might want to know if people have time left over at the end of the day to do the job right - let alone keep an eye on their elected representatives at various levels of government, which is part of the responsibility of every citizen.

I’ve got a friend who’s left Lycos and is negotiating with three different high-tech companies for a new position; he’s trying to bargain for a 60-hour week. Is he in an unusual position in not being able to combine that sort of career with a normal work week, or is he part of a larger trend? After the Census, I expect we’ll know. But it’s silly to say, “I think people are working longer hours than they used to, because I have this friend…” I want some numbers to back up my hypothesis, or kill it, whichever.

And (b) the stuff can be correlated. What’s the relationship between income and hours worked? What sort of demographic groups buy what sort of vehicles? And since everybody gets access to this information, it gives all of us a leg up in what we’re doing, whether it’s you doing market research for starting a business, or me being an armchair social scientist.

I have a hard time seeing what can provide more sheer opportunity for people, here in the year 2000, than the easy availability of useful information. Somebody’s got to gather it, and it would be appreciated by most of us if that ‘somebody’ had a track record of protecting the privacy of the individuals whose information made up the aggregate data being made available.

In the private sector, we haven’t seen the last Doubleclick. But the Census Bureau has a long history of fighting (successfully, I might add) to protect the privacy of individuals’ data from the IRS, the INS, the FBI, you name it.

Got my form today. There’s 8 questions for the person who fills out the form: number of people at that address, own or rent home, name, phone number, sex, age & dob, 7 & 8 are both race questions. The next five people in the household have 6 questions each: name, reationship to #1, sex, age & dob, 5 & 6 are both race. All other residents just have 1 question: name.

Are the questions involving work and hygiene on some other form, or what? :slight_smile:


“Age is mind over matter; if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.” -Leroy “Satchel” Paige

This is it???
That’s what I thought when we got our form today. I was all geared up to “be counted” and answer all these questions. And it took me two minutes for the whole thing. I know, it’s so stupid, but I’m disappointed.

I got my census form today and took a look at it. It says to answer questions for all the people living here, but not to count students living away at college. I am just wondering if my son is going to get a census form at his dorm? I can just imagine what kind of responses they are going to get from dormies…


“You can be smart or pleasant. For years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.”
Elwood P. Dowd

Some of us don’t share your idea of automatically trusting anything any member of the government does. I’m sure that the black men deliberately infected with syphillis in the interest of gathering information shared my distrust.

Oh yes, I’m so happy that the data will only be available in aggregates of 20 or so households. That handles all of my confidentiality concerns right away!

Or due to desire for privacy?

Or if you’re going to institute racist laws, or you’re going to do a house-to-house search for people of a certain background, or if you’re going to

Absolutely and unquestionably irrelevant. The government has no business trying to micromanage the labor market, and the vast majority of people in the US do not have a gun to their heads forcing them to work 80 hour weeks (your tech friend ‘negotiating’ for a 60-hour week is either incompetent at his job or is unwilling to do any real negotiation.)

Ahh… the magic of Big Government. I want X, therefore I’ll force you to give me X. So simple, so destructive, and yet so commonly accepted. How sad.

Yes, demographic information can be correlated to determine which neighborhoods need a door-to-door search in the latest crackdown on anyone Big Brother doesn’t like. “Japanese heraus?” anyone?

If you want to get personal information about me to get a leg up, you can pay me for some of it and recieve a ‘go away’ for anything I don’t care to tell you at all. The fact that people like you want certain types of information doesn’t entitle you to force people to tell you that information.

A smaller, less intrusive government that doesn’t run around sticking a gun to people’s heads, demanding that they give up any pretense at privacy.

I’m sure that track record of protecting the privacy of individuals is a real comfort to anyone who spent time in an internment camp in WW2.

So if they have such a long history of allegedly keeping census data confidential, why was census data used for tracking draft dodgers in WW1 and for finding Japanese Americans to intern in WW2? And if they’re fighting oh so hard to protect the privacy of individual’s data, why are they selling it to businesses now? (They’re selling it in neighborhood-sized chunks, which means that the allegedly confidential detailed information can easily be associated with one person).

It looks to me like when some other arm of the government comes to ask for confidential census data, the Census Bureau sticks to the letter of not releasing individual information while still handing over enough to discredit any claim that the information is private.


Kevin Allegood,

“At least one could get something through Trotsky’s skull.”

  • Joseph Michael Bay

I withdraw my assertion about the number of years complete census information is kept confidential. I was on the US Census site for some business purposes and they say 72.

Samiam - the National Archives keeps the whole damn thing on microfilm. Every last entry from every census since 1790, with one notable exception - the 1890 census records were lost in a fire. I’m kinda lucky 'cos I live in the DC area so I can hit the Big Building with regularity but the Archives have regional (if not state) offices across the country. Don’t neglect your state archives as well, they have all sorts of great stuff. If you can’t get to them easily the people there will help you as best they can but it’ll cost; and you need to give as much info as you can get. Names alone aren’t much to go on.


Cave Diem! Carpe Canem!

Riboflavin, without responding to your argument point by point, the fact is that with our current government many government programs depend on data collected by the census, so a consequence of boycotting the census means that these programs would be even more inefficient and/or wasteful than they are.

And you can point out many examples of the government mistreating people, but for any example you can find out another example of private businesses harming their employees and/or neighbours. Remember Union Carbide’s plant in Bhopal, India? A prime example of what can happen when a government does not enforce safety regulations.

Since the programs are immoral, racist, and otherwise very bad, why should I assist them in carrying out said programs? The fact that some disgusting ‘social engineering’ experiment requires my cooperation does not induce a moral obligation on my part to support said experiment, and in fact induces a moral obligation on my part to resist assisting said experiment.

Actually, I was specifically pointing out that your earlier assertion that the Census Berau had a good record of keeping information confidential was completely and utterly incorrect. Information from the Census Bureau has been used against ordinary citizens rather routinely, with only token protections against the confidentiality they claim to keep. They’re even selling the information now.

I also mentioned a non-census related abuse of people in response to your assertion that a good reason to answer the Census is ‘ask congress’, a clear indication that you think we should blindly trust what the government tells us to do.

This is a non-sequitor; we weren’t discussing whether one should give information to a business, we were discussing whether to give information to a government agency. Saying ‘look, some private company did something bad’ doesn’t magically make the government virtue incarnate.

And the use of Census Bureau information in the roundup of the Japanese is a prime example of the ‘confidentiality’ in which your census data will be held. The difference is that your example has nothing to do with answering the census, while mine does.


Kevin Allegood,

“At least one could get something through Trotsky’s skull.”

  • Joseph Michael Bay