# What happened to JonBenet Ramsey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577 "2010-01-11T23:41:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/281 "2010-01-14T18:45:05Z")
I’m saying there is no reason to hypothsize that the Ramseys abetted the killer. You could hypothesize that ANY parents of abducted or murdered children were in on it, but without evidence, those hypotheses are so much smoke. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/282 "2010-01-14T18:45:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How does one go about looking for _un_known sex offenders? I never suggested that could be done. I simply said that just because Ramsey had no known pedo associates, it doesn’t mean he didn’t know any, or wasn’t one himself. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/283 "2010-01-14T18:46:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Irrelevant. Does not implicate the Ramseys, since any intruder could obviosuly find the note pad. Everything in the house belonged to Ramseys. Saying something in their home is “circumstancial evidence against them” because it’s in their house is specious byond words. Buddy, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re making this up as a you go along. You could not be further from being right. For some reason, you have decided that not only must the Ramseys be innocent, there mustn’t be any evidence against them. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to recognize that evidence does not equal proof and different evidence is afforded different wieght. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it didn’t. Let me rephrase. The ransom demand was in amount consistent with Jon’s bonus. This amount was known to the Ramseys and few others. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/284 "2010-01-14T18:47:57Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I never suggested that could be done. I simply said that just because Ramsey had no known pedo associates, it doesn’t mean he didn’t know any, or wasn’t one himself. There is no evidence of either, and these possibilities were thoroughly investigated. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/285 "2010-01-14T18:48:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m saying there is no reason to hypothsize that the Ramseys abetted the killer. > > You could hypothesize that ANY parents of abducted or murdered children were in on it, but without evidence, those hypotheses are so much smoke. Maybe you think that conceding something is “evidence” is giving up too much ground. It’s not. I can dismiss circumstantial evidence as being remote or explain it away (as you’ve done with the note). That doesn’t mean it’s not evidence any longer. It just measn that the evidence does not have much weight. Could we get **bricker** to wiegh in? This is right in his wheelhouse ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/286 "2010-01-14T18:50:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no evidence of either, and these possibilities were thoroughly investigated. You mean by determining that John Ramsey didn’t associate with any _known_ pedophiles? Go on, how exactly was this part of the investigation carried out? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/287 "2010-01-14T18:52:02Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Buddy, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re making this up as a you go along. You could not be further from being right. For some reason, you have decided that not only must the Ramseys be innocent, there mustn’t be any evidence against them. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to recognize that evidence does not equal proof and different evidence is afforded different wieght. I’m just stating the objective fact that there is no evdience against them. That’s why they were officially cleared. That’s why they are no longer under suspicion. That’s why they are no longer being investigated. > [@](#): > > Let me rephrase. The ransom demand was in amount consistent with Jon’s bonus. This amount was known to the Ramseys and few others. This does not mean the writer ofth note knew that to be the case, nor would it be all that difficult or extraordinary for a motivated indiviual to find out somebody’s bonus if he really wanted to. It wasn’t like finding out the launch codes for the nukes aimed at Moscow or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/288 "2010-01-14T18:53:46Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > You mean by determining that John Ramsey didn’t associate with any _known_ pedophiles? Go on, how exactly was this part of the investigation carried out? I don’t understand what you’re suggesting wasn’t done. Everybody the Ramseys knew was investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/289 "2010-01-14T18:54:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Drop the zeroes, add one, reverse it… > > _…you got 9/11, man!!!_ Fa foo flitta flitta flang yang… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/290 "2010-01-14T18:56:41Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Maybe you think that conceding something is “evidence” is giving up too much ground. It’s not. I can dismiss circumstantial evidence as being remote or explain it away (as you’ve done with the note). That doesn’t mean it’s not evidence any longer. It just measn that the evidence does not have much weight. > > Could we get **bricker** to wiegh in? This is right in his wheelhouse I’m not saying it’s not evidence, I’m saying it doesn’t point at the Ramseys. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/291 "2010-01-14T18:56:45Z")
I presume there was an estimated time of death, so did this leave a window of opportunity for the unknown intruder to hide her body and make the ransom note worth writing out? Or is there a slight suggestion that if any of the parents were involved, they couldn’t bear the idea of the killer taking her body and hiding it? ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/292 "2010-01-14T18:57:17Z")
I wonder if the police questioned suspects on their knowledge of the movie “Speed?” It’s interesting that the ransom note uses the phrase, “Do not grow a brain, John,” which Dennis Hopper says to Keanu Reeves in that particular movie which was released two years before Ramsey was killed. I don’t remember it ever really becoming a common phrase, but maybe I’m wrong. Anyone know if that’s ever come up in any of the discussions of the case? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/293 "2010-01-14T18:58:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m just stating the objective fact that there is no evdience against them. This is not an objective fact. There is “evidence” that implicates them. I’ve given it to you. It does not implicate them to the exlcusion of all others. That does not mean it is not evidence. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s why they were officially cleared. That’s why they are no longer under suspicion. That’s why they are no longer being investigated.. . . . or the evidence was not sufficient to warrant further investigation. We don;t know and it’s irrelevant to the dicussion of what constitutes evidence. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This does not mean the writer ofth note knew that to be the case, nor would it be all that difficult or extraordinary for a motivated indiviual to find out somebody’s bonus if he really wanted to. It wasn’t like finding out the launch codes for the nukes aimed at Moscow or anything. Irrelevant. I seriously suggest you take the time to read up on “circumstantial evidence.” It does not have to be to dispositive. You are so far out of your depth on this, you really should quit. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/294 "2010-01-14T19:00:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not saying it’s not evidence, I’m saying it doesn’t point at the Ramseys. and that’s where you’re wrong - it points to the Ramseys ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/295 "2010-01-14T19:01:37Z")
> [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](#): > > I wonder if the police questioned suspects on their knowledge of the movie “Speed?” It’s interesting that the ransom note uses the phrase, “Do not grow a brain, John,” which Dennis Hopper says to Keanu Reeves in that particular movie which was released two years before Ramsey was killed. I don’t remember it ever really becoming a common phrase, but maybe I’m wrong. > > Anyone know if that’s ever come up in any of the discussions of the case? Are you suggesting that the movie “Speed” has as much relevance to this case as the potential of pedophile activity? I just need to be clear how far you are stretching. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/296 "2010-01-14T19:01:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not saying it’s not evidence, I’m saying it doesn’t point at the Ramseys. Hypothetically, what would be circumstantial non dispositve evidence of the Ramsey’s invovlement? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/297 "2010-01-14T19:02:33Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > The ransom demand was in amount consistent with Jon’s bonus. Cite? People keep saying this, but I’m beginning to doubt it’s true. Is there a good source for this factoid (where it was confirmed by police), or just breathless third-hand tabloid accounts? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/298 "2010-01-14T19:03:54Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Hypothetically, what would be circumstantial non dispositve evidence of the Ramsey’s invovlement? I’ll be highly surprised if he offers anything, as he is fully invested - it seems - in assuming their innocence. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/299 "2010-01-14T19:05:36Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > and that’s where you’re wrong - it points to the Ramseys How? ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/300 "2010-01-14T19:06:39Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Are you suggesting that the movie “Speed” has as much relevance to this case as the potential of pedophile activity? I just need to be clear how far you are stretching. Easy there, Sparky. I’m not stretching one way nor the other. I’m curious, as I thought it was a strange phrase to use. That’s it. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=16)