# What happened to JonBenet Ramsey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577 "2010-01-11T23:41:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/21 "2010-01-12T21:01:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was an intruder. End of story. Probably a known intruder, however, which could complicate the case depending on the circumstances of how and why exactly he managed to do all that stuff **in their house** without waking anyone. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/22 "2010-01-12T21:19:52Z")
I’d have imagined the Benet’s would have had a lot of photography equipment to record their daughter’s beauty pageants and stuff… was what they were filming ever investigated thoroughly? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/23 "2010-01-12T21:51:29Z")
That ransom note is so bizzare and carries so much hate towards John Ramsey it almost seems that the murder was done by someone who had it in for him. Did he have any ex-employees, business partners, neighbors, relatives, etc. that he had a major beef with? So much so that they killed his daughter to piss him off? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/24 "2010-01-12T21:55:01Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Probably a known intruder, however, which could complicate the case depending on the circumstances of how and why exactly he managed to do all that stuff **in their house** without waking anyone. Somebody took Elizabeth Smart out of her house wihout waking anyone. It can happen. That FBI profiler (whose name I forget) who investigated the case said he thought it was someone who knew the family. If it was somebody the child knew, there isn’t necessarily any reason she would have made any noise or anything. I believe her body was found in a remote part of the basement (in a rather large house), so a lot of noise could have been muffled enough so as not to wake the parents. I have three daughters, and I don’t necessarily think anything of it even if I do hear noises in the middle of the night. They get up to go to the bathroom, get a glass of water, etc. all the time. I barely register the noises, and I probably couldn’t tell you if I specifically remember whether I heard anything on a given night, even last night. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/25 "2010-01-12T22:13:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [DNA clears JonBenet's family, points to mystery killer - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/09/jonbenet.dna/) > > Note that law enforcement was also eliminated as the source of the DNA. > > It was an intruder. End of story. Unidentified DNA does not necessarily mean it was an intruder, nor does it necessarily clear the parents. It could have been a person the parents hired to kill her, or the parents could have let the guy in. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/26 "2010-01-12T22:22:41Z")
What about the pineapple, though? Why wouldn’t they know about that? Or at any rate, why would they lie about it? If they were involved presumably they’d know about it–why would they lie and say they didn’t? To make it look like she was doing something when they were asleep whichiwould exonerate them? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/27 "2010-01-12T22:47:41Z")
So what was the reasoning behind writing the rambling ransom letter if she was already dead? Kidnapping attempt gone bad? But why not write the letter at home? Why sit in the victim’s kitchen and write a three page note? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/28 "2010-01-12T22:55:03Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So what was the reasoning behind writing the rambling ransom letter if she was already dead? Kidnapping attempt gone bad? But why not write the letter at home? Why sit in the victim’s kitchen and write a three page note? I don’t know. That doesn’t make any sense. Why would the family have written a ransom note, though, if they hired someone to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/29 "2010-01-12T23:18:42Z")
For that matter, why would they write a ransom note if they knew the body was in the basement? Trying to throw the cops off the scent would make absolutely no sense, knowing they were bound to search the house. The pineapple means nothing to me. I don’t know everything my kids eat, and my four year old gets things out of the fridge on her own and eats them all the time. So what if they didn’t remember her eating pinapple? Put a gun to my head and I can’t tell you everything that’s in my kids’ stomachs. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/30 "2010-01-12T23:19:13Z")
It seems impossible the perp could have known and hated Mr. Ramsey that much and the investigators never interviewed him. Did they check the DNA of everyone who could possibly be that close to the family? Did anyone refuse to submit to a DNA test? Were the investigators not permitted to ask certain people? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/31 "2010-01-12T23:19:26Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > That ransom note is so bizzare and carries so much hate towards John Ramsey it almost seems that the murder was done by someone who had it in for him. > Did he have any ex-employees, business partners, neighbors, relatives, etc. that he had a major beef with? So much so that they killed his daughter to piss him off? Sorry to be overly vague, but didn’t a family friend write a mystery novel that was quite similar to the case… I think her husband dressed up as Santa for the family that year..? ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/32 "2010-01-12T23:21:27Z")
All of these questions we had the capability of knowing the truth about, then and now. Instead of using a 1700’s justice system we ought use 21st century lie detectors and truth serum. So much less money and time wasted. But we all just pretend they were never invented, while we allow eyewitness testimony that is often wrong many many times by saying this other may not be 100 percent accurate. It sure would be 100 on eliminating them if they were innocent. It ought to just be evidence to be decided on with all the other evidence. But once in jail, we ought to be able to find out what else these known child molesters have done, even if not prosecuted. I bet we would find she died by one of them in jail for another kid’s murder. We seem to love our 1700’s have strangers guess if they did it system, but would you want the other ideas of the 1700’s used too then? Like 1700’s sanitation in your food and dining places, and how about 1700’s medical care? 1700’s roads, and horses to go to work? I’ll bet she was killed by a molester, I never heard of any motive for the parents and seems like they did ask for a lie detector. Yes that alone can be coached if you have time to do it, but add truth serum and you would know the truth. I am still mad we wouldn’t do that with McVey in Oklahoma, find out if there were others setting up, and we sure ought do it for molesters. It is not torture, it is like we only want to guess, not know truth. We do not even have to use it in court if the guy is already in for life or a death sentence, but we can solve the case and bring peace to so many families, if we just had sense to use tools we have. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/33 "2010-01-12T23:23:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For that matter, why would they write a ransom note if hey knew the body was in the basement? > > The pineapple means nothing to me. I don’t know everything my kids eat, and my four year old gets things out of the fridge on her own and eats them all the time. So what if they didn’t remeber her eating pinapple. Put a gun to my head and I can’t tell you everything that’s in my kids’ stomachs. Well, it depends on when she ate it. John and Patsy said she was asleep when she came home from the party with them. So if they fed it to her, it would mean they were lying about her being asleep. If she ate it right before death, it would indicate that she was fed it by her killer and presumably that person was someone she knew and had no reason to fear. Also, the pineapple was served in a bowl that was too high for her to reach so she couldn’t have gotten it on her own. ETA: **Silverstreak** , you do know that lie detector results can be faked and that truth serum isn’t a wonder drug, yes? ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/34 "2010-01-12T23:25:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So what was the reasoning behind writing the rambling ransom letter if she was already dead? Kidnapping attempt gone bad? But why not write the letter at home? Why sit in the victim’s kitchen and write a three page note? Kidnapping attempt gone bad seems the most reasonable explanation to me. The Ramseys had dinner at a friend’s house that night; the killer could have broken in and written the ransom note while they were out. He must have known they would be gone for at least a few hours - you don’t write a rambling note like that if you’re unsure the family won’t be coming right back. The fact that her body was found in a bizarre, little-used room in the basement would also indicate the killer had plenty of time to familiarize himself with the layout of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/35 "2010-01-12T23:30:20Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > All of these questions we had the capability of knowing the truth about, then and now. Instead of using a 1700’s justice system we ought use 21st century lie detectors and truth serum. So much less money and time wasted. But we all just pretend they were never invented, while we allow eyewitness testimony that is often wrong many many times by saying this other may not be 100 percent accurate. > > It sure would be 100 on eliminating them if they were innocent. It ought to just be evidence to be decided on with all the other evidence. But once in jail, we ought to be able to find out what else these known child molesters have done, even if not prosecuted. I bet we would find she died by one of them in jail for another kid’s murder. > > We seem to love our 1700’s have strangers guess if they did it system, but would you want the other ideas of the 1700’s used too then? Like 1700’s sanitation in your food and dining places, and how about 1700’s medical care? 1700’s roads, and horses to go to work? > > I’ll bet she was killed by a molester, I never heard of any motive for the parents and seems like they did ask for a lie detector. Yes that alone can be coached if you have time to do it, but add truth serum and you would know the truth. I am still mad we wouldn’t do that with McVey in Oklahoma, find out if there were others setting up, and we sure ought do it for molesters. > > It is not torture, it is like we only want to guess, not know truth. We do not even have to use it in court if the guy is already in for life or a death sentence, but we can solve the case and bring peace to so many families, if we just had sense to use tools we have. Dude, have you ever been right about anything? Lie detectors and truth serums are very inaccurate. Honestly, if it seems to you like there is a simple answer to a complex and lasting question, it’s most likely the case that you don’t have enough information to feed your assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/36 "2010-01-12T23:32:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, it depends on when she ate it. John and Patsy said she was asleep when she came home from the party with them. So if they fed it to her, it would mean they were lying about her being asleep. > > If she ate it right before death, it would indicate that she was fed it by her killer and presumably that person was someone she knew and had no reason to fear. > > Also, the pineapple was served in a bowl that was too high for her to reach so she couldn’t have gotten it on her own. > > ETA: **Silverstreak** , you do know that lie detector results can be faked and that truth serum isn’t a wonder drug, yes? When you say the pineapple was in a bowl that was too high, couldn’t she have stood on a chair? When I was too short to reach stuff I would drag chairs to wherever I needed them. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/37 "2010-01-12T23:35:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > When you say the pineapple was in a bowl that was too high, couldn’t she have stood on a chair? When I was too short to reach stuff I would drag chairs to wherever I needed them. I found this cite: [http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm](http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm) > [@](#): > > ``` > The fingerprints of Patsy and Burke were found on a bowl on a kitchen table from which JonBenet ate pineapple sometime after she arrived home, according to Det. Thomas, something inconsistent with the statements by John and Patsy that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived at home and never woke up. JonBenet had apparently gotten up during the night (or had never gone to sleep) and, with the help of Patsy and/or Burke (either of whom could reach the bowl stored in a cabinet well above the height JonBenet could reach), was served and ate the last food she consumed before she was killed. > > ``` I suppose if Burke was able to reach it, she could have gotten it with a chair. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/38 "2010-01-12T23:36:22Z")
Freud, do you know witnesses can be bought, or just not have seen what they thought, but that testimony is welcome to send someone to jail. Not any theory, it has been documented many times. I think these tools are at least as accurate as those, and just because they may have been poor 50 years ago, look at them today. Would all the CIA and armored car places and stuff use them if they really did not work? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/39 "2010-01-13T00:02:42Z")
> [@Oh Danny boy, the pipes the pipes are calling....](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-danny-boy-the-pipes-the-pipes-are-calling/58357/3): > > It was an intruder. End of story. I hope you don’t think it rude of me to be a bit :dubious: about your air of assuredness and finality here. Seeing that you were the guy back in '06 who responded to the arrest of the [alleged pedophile in Thailand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mark_Karr) in the JonBenet case, posted a quote from the news story (“The suspect has confessed to certain elements of the crime that are unknown to the general public.”) and then said: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Not many details yet, but I’m posting this in the pit so I can shout out a giant FUCK YOU to everyone in the media that convicted and crucified her parents for all those years. Are we going to see any apologies? I doubt it. After that blew up I personally would have laid off all definitive pronouncements about this hugely screwed-up case, but I guess we’re different. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/40 "2010-01-13T00:03:25Z")
Take it from someone who knows. NOTHING is too high for a little kid to reach. I just took my 4 year old down from a kitchen counter a few minutes ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=3)