# What happened to JonBenet Ramsey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577 "2010-01-11T23:41:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/121 "2010-01-13T11:29:51Z")
The Boulder police weren’t as crazy and “Fifeish” as the Ramseys’ massive PR spin. The Ramseys book implicated various people that ended up suing them, also. Look, the police weren’t answering all call at the trailer park bar…they thought carefully about who was really in their ‘umbrella’. They also know they better have every detail perfect, every ‘i’ dotted…because they knew they would be locking horns with quite possibly the best legal defense team ever assembled…and then some. They’re not morons…they’re the Bolder, Co. police, consulting with the FBI. For the first SEVERAL hours, the crime scene was orchastrated by The Ramsy’s discovery of the ransom note, and the investigation was already blown. But if anything, it was their rush to judgement BELIEVING THE RAMSEYS, that the scene was real that cost them the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/122 "2010-01-13T11:41:34Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > (Totally dismissing DtC as an unreasoning nutcase on this topic) This is not called for, **dropzone**. Don’t insult other posters in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/123 "2010-01-13T11:43:43Z")
Lest we need to be reminded, DNA is interpreted by hugely fallible humans. Considering all the other mistakes I’ve heard in the investigation of this case, why should this area be so reliable? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/124 "2010-01-13T13:56:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > There, she has eaten pineapple a significant time before death, there is time to have several drafts and a final copy of the note, no fingerprints, and the note paper, pen and garrotte cord with fibres from a sweater owned by the mother. The cord on the garrotte did not match any from the house. No-one has mentioned here (IIRC) that a pubic hair was found on the blanket in which JonBenet’s body was wrapped. It did NOT match either of her parents’. In addition to that unexplained, and highly suggestive, finding, a number of other seemingly important clues would seem to exculpate the Ramseys. - the DNA under her fingernails (as Dio has mentioned once or twice ;)) - marks c/w a stun gun firing on her body - an unidentified palm print found on the cellar door, - footprint of a Hi-Tec hiking boot found near her body - leaves and other matter near an open basement window AND also in the room where she was found (i.e. possibly tracked in by the perp) - the pubic hair (as noted above) I’ll also note that the Ramseys’ use of lawyer so soon after the crime was done at the behest and strong urging of a friend. It was NOT their idea to “hide” behind a lawyer so early. Finally, the Ramseys repeatedly volunteered to take lie detector tests. They repeatedly asked the police to interview them (early on, at least). Not even requesting a search warrant, they also repeatedly volunteered to open their house to the police, for a search, on several occasions. All of this is well documented in the [Crime Library site](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/index_1.html) as noted by **UTejas** above. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/125 "2010-01-13T14:01:55Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Everyone should read the [Crime Library summary](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/index_1.html) of the case. Yes, it’s long. Please read it. This thread is rife with accusations of guilt due to “glad-handing” as well as events that didn’t happen, like John Ramsey suddenly leaping up and running to the secret room. > > So far **Dio** is the only one with cites. Thanks, **UTejas** , I’ll try to read this today. JonBenet Ramsey’s case has long fascinated me, and if I read this cite it was definitely a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/126 "2010-01-13T16:35:34Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Possible DNA contamination and everything else aside. The one thing that really can’t be explained away here (IMO) is that utterly oddball ransom note. In looking at the contents it really does look like a massive, on the fly, creative writing exercise of what someone’s notion of a ransom note \*should \*look like, and it was very likely it was written by Patsy Ramsey. What proof do you have that the ransom note was “very likely written by Patsy Ramsey”? [QUOTE=dropzone] John Ramsay was filmed happily welcoming others to the funeral of his daughter. One point. [/QUOTE] Unless you’ve set up a barcalounger inside John Ramsey’s head, you can’t possibly know this. Why do you believe presumption and innuendo are acceptable methods for determining guilt or innocence? ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/127 "2010-01-13T16:49:21Z")
In the scenario in which JonBenet was murdered by someone who was known to her (but apparently not a DNA match to anyone who as been tested so far), it doesn’t make sense that the crime was a kidnapping gone bad. If JonBenet knew the person, she would have been able to identify the kidnapper after the fact. ETA: Unless the kidnapper intended to try to collect the money and then kill her rather than returning her. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/128 "2010-01-13T17:21:05Z")
I have a conclusion: Colorado has the dumbest criminal justice system in America. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/129 "2010-01-13T17:29:07Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I have a conclusion: Colorado has the dumbest criminal justice system in America. I’d say it’s dumb across the board, but it’s mainly the wealthy who can afford to actually benefit from the usual bungling. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/130 "2010-01-13T17:40:41Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > Unless you’ve set up a barcalounger inside John Ramsey’s head, you can’t possibly know this. Big smiles and slaps on shoulders as he met people. It was more like a wedding than a funeral. > [@](#): > > Why do you believe presumption and innuendo are acceptable methods for determining guilt or innocence? The lovely thing about internet message boards is that we are not governed by the same rules as in a court of law. OTOH, on this board we are governed by rules of common courtesy and I apologize to my friend **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/131 "2010-01-13T17:42:39Z")
I just don’t see the smiling/shoulder slapping as an indicator of anything. Some people behave that way but they’re crying on the inside. It’s their way of whistling in the dark, I guess. Other people shut down entirely. It may not be tasteful, but when you’ve gone through something this traumatic that most people should never have to deal with, is there a correct way to act? ETA: There may be a socially sanctioned way to act, yeah–we’d sympathize more if he were crying. But as another poster pointed out, when her daughter was ill she was making jokes with her husband just to deal and the nurse on duty probably thought this was odd. I don’t think we should hold people going through a traumatic experience to the same standards, though. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/132 "2010-01-13T17:47:14Z")
I dunno. I thought it was creepy. I could be wrong. The long, rambling ransom note that asked for the exact but odd amount of John’s bonus? That was creepy without any interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/133 "2010-01-13T17:52:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was an intruder. End of story. No it wasn’t. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/134 "2010-01-13T17:52:24Z")
Television also has a way of cherry picking isolated moments from what could be hours of actual footage. The parents could have been sitting somberly for most of three hours, and the media vultures were only interested in the few seconds of lightness and levity they could capture. I have seen people laugh and smile at funerals. I have seen parents laugh at the funerals of their children. The range of emotions people go through is so un-anchored and rudderless and unpredictable that you just can’t impose any normal expectations of it. People’s brains go haywire. The needle spins in circles. They can go from laughing to sobbing to rage in the space of like 15 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/135 "2010-01-13T17:53:58Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No it wasn’t. End of story. Really, who in the family did the DNA belong to? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/136 "2010-01-13T17:57:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I dunno. I thought it was creepy. I could be wrong. It might be creepy to an outsider. And maybe even to someone there. As **Dio** points out, there is no “normal” way to behave. But even if it is creepy, it’s not evidence one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/137 "2010-01-13T18:05:11Z")
Not in a court of law, but in the “court of public opinion” it’s how you get people wondering if there is more to the story. Not fair? Nope, but it’s how people are wired. News cameras were not allowed in the church. They shot what they could outside. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/138 "2010-01-13T18:07:56Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In this case there are many elements that can’t be waved away, but in sorting through the mostly likely explanations the notion that a crazy person would sneak into he house, take the kid and then, while on premises, take the time to write several drafts of an extemporaneous ransom note that shows a considerable level of knowledge about Ramsey’s personal bonus that year … I don’t know the final answer, but the probability of that happening vs it being a horrible accident of some kind with a scrambling CYA after the fact, I’m coming down on the side it being an accident with CYA after the fact. For those of us trying to follow along, what exactly is “CYA”? (I hate it when people throw around abbreviations without explanation.) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ My opinion of this case is that it’s a lot like case of the American girl recently convicted in Italy–the public jumped to a conclusion because the accused did not act the way the public thought appropriate. To me, that sort of behavior has no weight in convincing me the person is guilty. I’ve known too many weird people to expect any particular response for any circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/139 "2010-01-13T18:09:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Big smiles and slaps on shoulders as he met people. It was more like a wedding than a funeral. In your opinion. [QUOTE=dropzone] The lovely thing about internet message boards is that we are not governed by the same rules as in a court of law. [/QUOTE] Yes but unfortunately people like you wind up on very real juries. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577/140 "2010-01-13T18:11:55Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > For those of us trying to follow along, what exactly is “CYA”? (I hate it when people throw around abbreviations without explanation.) “Cover Your Ass.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-jonbenet-ramsey/524577.md?page=8)