# What happened to Roanoke? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 2, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680 "2005-12-02T04:00:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/21 "2020-08-24T02:36:57Z")
However, that same article:_When the curators put the painting on a light table three months later, the star-shaped symbol of a fort appeared under one patch. The location of the fort was just as startling: It lay not on Roanoke Island but some 50 miles away, at the head of Albemarle Sound—matching White’s mention that the colonists planned to relocate “fifty miles into the main.” And on top of this patch was the barely perceptible outline of a fort as well, drawn in what may have been invisible ink made with urine—a hint that the patch was meant to conceal a secret rather than fix an error._ ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/22 "2020-08-24T20:24:38Z")
Just a quibble. European (and Asian) diseases generally hopped from wild animals to domestic animals and because of the close proximity, to humans; and because of population densities of heavily agricultural societies, eventually became endemic in the population. The native Americans did not have much in the way of domestic animals, so much less exposure to disease, and diseases spread much less in the sparser-populated areas of the continents. So they had no such diseases to pass to the Europeans. (Although there’s the belief that they did pass syphilis, which did not need livestock as a source… we hope). OTOH, I recall a study of smallpox among the west coast natives, which said the reason for their decimation was that not only was nobody in the villages immune, so everyone got it at once, but that in a subsistence society there would then be nobody to nurse the sick, so almost all died of exposure dehydration and starvation. Europeans in the same situation would be equally susceptible. The study notes that when there was someone to nurse the sick (i.e. Previously immune or a European missionary), death rates from smallpox among the natives were about the same as with Europeans - only 10% of the infected actually died. The biggest problem was how fast it spread in a community. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/23 "2025-05-22T20:27:32Z")
Bumped. I don’t think we’ll ever be _completely_ sure what happened, but here’s this: > **[‘Smoking gun’ evidence of Lost Colony’s relocation to Hatteras Island makes...](https://islandfreepress.org/hatteras-island-features/smoking-gun-evidence-of-lost-colonys-relocation-to-hatteras-island-makes-international-news/)** > > Renowned British archaeologist Dr. Mark Horton and island native Scott Dawson have been teaming up to conduct archeological digs in Buxton and Frisco for years. Home of the friendly Croatoan \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/24 "2025-05-22T22:05:52Z")
“It’s funny that people still pretend that the colonists carved a mysterious word on a tree – ‘Croatoan’ – and no one knows what it means” IKR? It is funny that anyone still treats this as a mystery. Maybe they just enjoy the _frisson_ of “oo, mysterious, oo” and are reluctant to let go of it. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/25 "2025-05-22T23:02:02Z")
I watched Leonard Nimoy’s “In Search of” as a kid. All these “mysteries” were new to me. I do remember the one about the Roanoke Colony, and the wiki synopsis says there is an “intriguing new theory” about it. I sure hope it wasn’t aliens, as looking through the episode synopsis there were quite a few about Aliens, even if they were the cause of The Bermuda Triangle, Atlantis. And plenty of silly ones: Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot yet lots of them remain at least not-quite solved mysteries (DB Cooper - likely jumped and died but only some cash has been found). I’m way too cynical to watch such a show now while back then I considered it Science - hey Spock is hosting it! Yet not much scientific skepticism. How can so many people have seen Bigfoot or Nessie without there being a breeding population. Just one of each? If the intriguing reason for Roanoke was known in the 70’s, I didn’t know any more till I read this thread. Yeah, “Smoking Gun” evidence would make a good show. Ignore the Bermuda Triangle, and don’t try and tell me Stonehenge was a landing pad for Aliens, yet you can say that for some reason the rocks were dragged there from Wales (and not teleported by Aliens or carried by British Yeti’s). I think we know a bit more about what happened to Malllory than 50 years ago (Aliens!) and perhaps Easter Island (not Aliens!). I sure hope kids in elementary school aren’t “learning” what I did: Civil War: Slavery. Columbus discovered America, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/26 "2025-05-22T23:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > As first announced by the Daily Mail Maybe a bit of a red flag there… ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/27 "2025-05-22T23:36:56Z")
That led me to read the Daily Fail article and the Wiki, which is at least collaborative and aims to cite things like we do here. The article ends with several " Hypotheses" so I reckon this is not quite a smoking gun. There certainly are plausible theories yet I guess there are many things that will never be solved (almost) to smoking gun level. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/28 "2025-05-23T02:57:13Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What mystery? It’s always been known what happened to the colony. They went to join the Croatoan Indians. They left a message saying where they had gone, and did not use the pre-arranged signal that would indicate any violence. Therefore they left voluntarily, and were welcomed by the Croatoan. There are people livung in the area today who claim ancestry from both Croatoan and colonist. Now that the mystery has been solved (complete with museum constructed in 2023), let’s review and replay the fight with ignorance. It’s a mix of facts ignored and what was then a genuine lack of definitive evidence. [The Encyclopedia Britannica summarizes the popular consensus](https://www.britannica.com/story/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke): > Since 1998, the Croatoan Project has researched and provided archaeological evidence to back up the theory that the colonists moved to be with, or at least interacted with, the Hatteras tribe. Artifacts and objects found within Croatoan villages that only English settlers had owned or had made at the time have solidified the connection between the two groups. But despite this evidence, and many other theories, it is likely that no definitive answer to the mystery of the colonists’ disappearance will ever be found. Simply put, the mystery is what exactly happened to the Lost Colony of Roanoke? That’s a request for a narrative, one backed by evidence. All that we knew about them was a cryptic word carved on a tree. Did they settle with the friendly Croatoan tribe? Or did they lose to the Secotans, with survivors absorbed into surrounding tribes? This ignores the pre-arranged agreement to write down where they fled to, and the absence of a cross which would have indicated it was done under duress. So the tree carving isn’t mysterious and indeed points to the more peaceful scenario. Further archeology established at least a temporary English settlement on what is today called Hatteras Island. The smoking gun shows there was a forge there, indicating a _permanent_ settlement. Case closed. [Narrative established](https://islandfreepress.org/hatteras-island-features/the-lost-colony-museum-in-buxton-is-on-a-mission-to-reshape-history/). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/29 "2025-05-23T03:34:01Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The smoking gun shows there was a forge there, indicating a _permanent_ settlement. Case closed. I’m not convinced. If they had a permanent settlement, why didn’t they survive? Especially with a forge. There is still a little mystery there. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/30 "2025-05-23T03:38:05Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I’m not convinced. If they had a permanent settlement, why didn’t they survive? Especially with a forge. There is still a little mystery there. They did survive. There were blue-eyed Indians in the environs 100 years later. Is the narrative complete? Maybe not. But there are big pieces in place. Might the joint community have fallen on hard times in the intervening 100 years? Presumably so. I understand the excavation site is pretty small, so there is more to uncover. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/31 "2025-05-23T03:39:54Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > There were blue-eyed Indians in the environs 100 years later. Does any of their remaining DNA match the descendants in Europe? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/32 "2025-05-23T03:51:01Z")
As though obtaining the DNA of certain blue-eyed Indians from centuries ago were as easy as ordering it from Amazon? In a subtropical humid climate, which North Carolina is, _all_ old DNA may be decomposed. Can’t take it for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/33 "2025-05-23T03:57:45Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > As though obtaining the DNA of certain blue-eyed Indians from centuries ago were as easy as ordering it from Ebay? It was suggested that (Measure\_for\_Measure): “let’s review and replay the fight with ignorance”. Second-hand reports of blue eyed Indians from centuries ago, that might or might not have been descended from Roanoke settlers (if they did exist) doesn’t seem like it’s fighting ignorance any more than other theories. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/34 "2025-05-23T04:11:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Does any of their remaining DNA match the descendants in Europe? Good question I say. In 2007 Roberta Estes established the Lost Colony DNA project. As of 2018, they had not yet found a match. [Her post goes into some detail on what was known about the Roanoke colony and mixed prospects for insight from modern DNA technology](https://dna-explained.com/2018/06/28/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-did-they-survive-national-geographic-archaeology-historical-records-and-dna/) hundreds of years later. I’ll reproduce her request: > [@](#): > > **Are You The One???** > > If you are (or know of) any of the following: > > - A male with a colonist surname with early roots in eastern coastal North Carolina > - A male descended from Hatteras Island or the Outer Banks and carrying a [Hatteras Island surname](https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/hatteras-fathers/surnames) > - A male affiliated with a Native American tribe from North Carolina, Virginia, or the Tuscarora > - A pre-1800 [Lumbee surname](http://lumbee.library.appstate.edu/list-lumbee-surnames) and match Y DNA at 37 markers or above to a colonist surname. > - A male with a family oral history of descent through your paternal line from the Lost Colonists > - A male in England with one of the colonist surnames > > Please purchase a 37 Y DNA test at [Family Tree DNA](http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-6754800-13710356) through [this link](http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-6754800-13710356) or contact me if you have reason to think you’re a colonist descendant. > > You never know, you may be just the person who solves the mystery! So they are not working with old remains (which I’m not sure exist in good repair), but rather more sociological clues. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Might the joint community have fallen on hard times in the intervening 100 years? Presumably so. More specifically: > By the time Europeans actually settled Hatteras Island around the time of the Tuscarora War (1711-1712,) the colonists had been dead for 80 years, if they lived out their lives on Hatteras Island, and their descendants 4 or 5 generations later were viewed as Indians, not Englishmen. Many Native people were killed during the Tuscarora War, and the Hatteras suffered greatly during that time. Their population shrank, their lands were settled by whites and between 1712 and 1756, they were diminished to two men, one woman and a child who were Mattamuskeet, not Hatteras. > It’s certainly probable that some of the Hatteras had intermarried with the European settlers after 1712 and before 1756, but if that occurred, it isn’t noted in any of the records. More info in link. While definitive DNA evidence may arise, it is entirely plausible that the original colony may have survived yet left no DNA evidence that can be tied conclusively to the original settlers. Absence of evidence here is extremely weak evidence of abscence. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/35 "2025-05-23T04:46:16Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > it is entirely plausible that the original colony may have survived yet left no DNA evidence that can be tied conclusively to the original settlers. In other words, when they intermingled with a native tribe, their by-then largely integrated (into a native tribe) descendants may have not unsurprisingly may have gotten caught up in the genocide of native tribes. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/36 "2025-05-23T04:58:06Z")
I wasn’t being euphemistic. [The link above](https://dna-explained.com/2018/06/28/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-did-they-survive-national-geographic-archaeology-historical-records-and-dna/) discusses the challenges of using DNA evidence this late in the game. But yes, [the Hatteras tribe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatteras_Indians) sided with the colonists during the Tuscarora War and were later driven from their lands by other tribes. Some of their descendants may be part of the Lumbee tribe (pop 60,000 c. 2025). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/37 "2025-05-23T05:06:48Z")
I can see how the DNA would be pretty dispersed by now given our history with the native populations. So good for them for continuing to search. On the other hand, by not having it we kind of have to shelve the blue eyed Indians as “proof” of their integration for a bit. Thanks for sharing those links. Fascinating reading. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/38 "2025-05-23T17:51:05Z")
The smoking gun nomenclature is a bit of joke (as is “Case closed”). Scientists test hypotheses but historians weigh evidence and build narratives that can survive skepticism and scrutiny. From [the 2023 article linked previously](https://islandfreepress.org/hatteras-island-features/the-lost-colony-museum-in-buxton-is-on-a-mission-to-reshape-history/): > “As an archaeologist, I hate the idea of smoking gun,” said Horton. “Because, in most cases, you really can’t point to a specific artifact and say, ‘This is it – This is the smoking gun.’ > “Instead, it’s the quantity of material, and what’s most remarkable here is the number of artifacts we have from this time [period.] That is what is so revealing, really… It’s common sense. It’s not exactly rocket science.” That’s from the same team who announced the, “Smoking gun” a week ago. Still, the hammserscales are a very nice piece of evidence and the main narrative is now much more plausible than competing ones. The Hattaras were not conquered until the 1700s. There was a British settlement on Hatteras Island dating from the 16th century - I suspect it would be difficult to support the counter-hypothesis that this was a more recent colonial settlement because of artifacts like the Nuremberg token and to some extent the Tudor Rose. The British settlement was a permanent one. There are scattered reports of Englishmen living in the area [detailed on the DNA website](https://dna-explained.com/2018/06/28/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-did-they-survive-national-geographic-archaeology-historical-records-and-dna/), though admittedly there were a few other Europeans running around the environs around that time. I’ll backpeddle a little and say we have the foundation for serious historical investigation now and the evidence points towards the Lost Colony’s survival and co-existence with the Hattaras tribe, as opposed to their deaths at the hands of the Secotans. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/39 "2025-06-11T15:54:14Z")
A blacksmith shop has been found. The hammer scale and the slag and the vitriolized glass. All these byproducts of blacksmithing are there. The recent findings adds to the evidence the survivors went to Hatteras Island. Are there any recent books on the archeological sites on Hatteras Island? I’m interested in learning more about the research and found artifacts. I’m currently reading this book. > **[The Lost Colony and Hatteras Island: Dawson, Scott: 9781467144339: Amazon.com:...](https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Colony-Hatteras-Island/dp/1467144339)** > > The Lost Colony and Hatteras Island \[Dawson, Scott\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Lost Colony and Hatteras Island Link [https://www.wtkr.com/news/in-the-community/outer-banks/researchers-share-most-recent-discovery-they-feel-reinforces-the-lost-colony-relocated-to-hatteras](https://www.wtkr.com/news/in-the-community/outer-banks/researchers-share-most-recent-discovery-they-feel-reinforces-the-lost-colony-relocated-to-hatteras) > [@](#): > > Our motivation in doing this was not to find the Lost Colony, because nobody that has any academia at all considers them lost. What we did was prove what we already knew, so that hopefully we could reinstate these guys, and that textbooks would start teaching Croatoan is the old name of Hatteras Island and a tribe. There’s 900 pages of documents talking about them. We know about their religion, their language, their culture, everything from the details of how they built a canoe to how they buried their dead. It’s all there in the same document as Virginia Dare’s birth," said Dawson. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680/40 "2025-06-12T18:09:30Z")
“Has any academia at all”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-roanoke/333680.md?page=1)