# What happened to "Sir Yes Sir" in Boot Camps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 29, 2025, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239 "2025-06-29T01:55:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/41 "2025-07-03T19:32:23Z")
That’s [Lloyd Fredendall,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Fredendall) among many others ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2025, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/42 "2025-07-03T20:54:31Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > “You totally fucked up. We will do something to keep you from ever causing any more harm. You go train all the new recruits.” The thing is, in WW2, one of the reasons why American pilots got better and better as the war went on, and Axis pilots didn’t, was that the Army Air Force and Navy would regularly rotate its best pilots back stateside to teach new pilots, and the Axis didn’t. It’s strange the U.S. military as a whole didn’t learn from this. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/43 "2025-07-04T08:53:12Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > now say “Yes Sir” or “No Sir” instead of “Sir Yes Sir” or “Sir No Sir”. > When did that change? Maybe part of Elon’s efficiency program. > [@TheTyrant](#): > > Hell I think the only officers I ever even _saw_ in boot camp were the doctor and the dentist. Reminds me of a joke … A rich guy joins the army to do his bit. One day he wakes up with a pain in his stomach and goes to see the doctor. The doctor sneers “A stomach ache ? would you come to me with such a trivial complaint in civilian life ?” The guy says “No sir, I’d send for you.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/44 "2025-07-05T15:21:01Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > For an officer, getting their command time in a training unit rather than a line unit is a career killer. > > > > [Snip] > > > > He was replaced by a captain that had been relieved for cause from a line company. Even as junior officers most of our instruction came from NCOs. > > That sounds brilliant. > “You totally fucked up. We will do something to keep you from ever causing any more harm. You go train all the new recruits.” The point is, officers don’t train. NCOs train. I talked about two different things in different posts. In Basic Training units there is a commanding officer and an executive officer. The training is done by Drill Sergeants. I also mentioned Officer Basic Course. This is where officers have already been commissioned and gone through ROTC, OCS or West Point and are commissioned officers. The basic course teaches them how to do the job of their branch. Most of those trainers are also NCOs. I went through Armor Officer Basic. We were split into groups of 4 (the size of a tank crew) each with their own NCO trainer. They taught us how to be tankers. The officers taught us things like how to fill out paperwork. The issue with being assigned a school assignment as an officer is that careers are made by what you do while in command. Command time is in surprisingly short supply in the Army. As a brand new 2nd Lieutenant you are in command of a platoon for about 18 months or so. As a captain you get command of a company. Your next command is if you make Lieutenant Colonel and you get to command a battalion. In between there are a lot of staff positions where you have a lot of responsibilities but are not in command. If you are an infantry captain and your company command time was a basic training company your career doesn’t stack up well against your peer who commanded a line company in the 82nd Airborne. (I am leaving out some exceptions. I’ve seen majors command specialty units that are bigger than a company. Captains with previous command time sometimes get a second stint as a headquarters company commander. Any extra opportunity to command is jumped at.) > [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Irishman](#): > > > > “You totally fucked up. We will do something to keep you from ever causing any more harm. You go train all the new recruits.” > > The thing is, in WW2, one of the reasons why American pilots got better and better as the war went on, and Axis pilots didn’t, was that the Army Air Force and Navy would regularly rotate its best pilots back stateside to teach new pilots, and the Axis didn’t. It’s strange the U.S. military as a whole didn’t learn from this. The U.S. Army uses pilots differently than the other branches. Most Army pilots are warrant officers. Pilots in training are trained by warrant officer flight instructors. I wasn’t a pilot but I was a navigator/observer. In AIT when we trained for our jobs our instructors were warrant officers and DACs (Department of the Army Civilians they were all retired warrant officers). This was in 1989. My instructor was a Vietnam War scout pilot. Even though that situation is different than almost all other AITs, the commissioned officer in command of the training company was barely seen and didn’t have much to do with our training. When it comes to flight training the other branches have to do things differently since their pilots are all commissioned officers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/45 "2025-07-05T20:35:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The point is, officers don’t train. NCOs train. Even so, don’t officers set the curriculum? Are you claiming that the commander of a training unit has no say on what the NCOs teach and how they teach it? That he doesn’t supervise them or set goals for them? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/46 "2025-07-05T23:12:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > don’t officers set the curriculum? Are you claiming that the commander of a training unit has no say on what the NCOs teach and how they teach it? That he doesn’t supervise them or set goals for them? Set the curriculum? No. That is set at a much, much higher level than unit leaders. U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) does that, and it is commanded by a 4-Star General . It has half as many civilian employees as it does military. It’s mostly DA civilians setting curriculum. That’s where the continuity is. The commander of a training unit has little say on what NCOs teach or how they teach it, except they have an obligation to ensure NCOs are teaching according to the pedagogical methods mandated by Army doctrine, are not abusive, and operate according to regulations. Mostly when officers are present and supervising, they are focused on safety and risk assessments rather than the actual training methods or subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239/47 "2025-07-06T20:24:48Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > don’t officers set the curriculum? Are you claiming that the commander of a training unit has no say on what the NCOs teach and how they teach it? That he doesn’t supervise them or set goals for them? > > Set the curriculum? No. That is set at a much, much higher level than unit leaders. U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) does that, and it is commanded by a 4-Star General . It has half as many civilian employees as it does military. It’s mostly DA civilians setting curriculum. That’s where the continuity is. > The commander of a training unit has little say on what NCOs teach or how they teach it, except they have an obligation to ensure NCOs are teaching according to the pedagogical methods mandated by Army doctrine, are not abusive, and operate according to regulations. Mostly when officers are present and supervising, they are focused on safety and risk assessments rather than the actual training methods or subjects. Thank you. Said it much better than I could. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-sir-yes-sir-in-boot-camps/1020239.md?page=2)