# What happened to the Nine Rings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [April 12, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868 "2021-04-12T20:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/41 "2021-04-14T16:43:41Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > > > Clearly he is able to _possess_ the Ring, though he is at this point an incorporeal being; he can use its power, despite not having a finger to put it on. > > > > That’s not consistent with what Gollum said. He was tortured in Barad-Dur, saw Sauron, and said that he only had nine fingers. > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Frodo: “It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy.” > > > > > > "Yes, He has only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough,’ said Gollum shuddering “And He hated Isidur’s city.” > > Point taken. It occurred to me after I posted that a Ringwraith was able to stab Frodo with a knife, and break Éowyn’s arm with a mace, so they’re clearly able to manipulate physical objects. And Merry’s blade pierced the Witch-King’s “undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.” So I misremembered, and the Ringwraiths _did_ have bodies, of some fashion. And so, apparently, did Sauron; although he was also incarnated as the Lidless Eye. > > Maybe then the Ringwraiths still possessed their rings. I like the image of a Ring being left on the battlefield after the death of the Witch King, which is then picked up by some private soldier. The corruption begins to set in during the days/weeks between that and the destruction of The One Ring. I wonder how much havoc could have been wrought during that time. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/42 "2021-04-14T16:49:38Z")
The Ring Wraiths did not carry their Rings by the time of the War. That much is clear. Don’t forget, many Ringwraiths were disincorporated by the flood unleashed by Elrond & Gandalf at the Fords of Bruinen. The Rings were not lost in said flood. Sauron had them gathered somewhere. Most likely Barad-dûr but possibly elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/43 "2021-04-14T18:43:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The Ring Wraiths did not carry their Rings by the time of the War. That much is clear. Don’t forget, many Ringwraiths were disincorporated by the flood unleashed by Elrond & Gandalf at the Fords of Bruinen. > > The Rings were not lost in said flood. > > Sauron had them gathered somewhere. Most likely Barad-dûr but possibly elsewhere Could the Ringwraiths _use_ their Rings? Did those Rings grant them any special abilities, or sustain them in some way? Because if the Nine Rings were hidden away in Sauron’s underwear drawer in Barad-dur, but the Ringwraiths were able to draw on their power all the way up in Eriador, then why did Sauron need actual physical possession of the One Ring? Surely he could have claimed its power as soon as Frodo left Lothlórien, or crossed the Anduin, or certainly when he entered Mordor. Which suggests that the Ringwraiths _didn’t_ use their rings, but were sustained by the Will of Sauron, which we know was far-reaching enough to cause a snowstorm on Caradhas. And that using a Ring required possession of it. Unless it’s not a question of physical possession _per se_, but rather an accepted claim of ownership? But that’s problematic, too, as that after the Council of Elrond, everyone acknowledges that the One Ring is Sauron’s. I’ll leave it up to @Qadgop_the_Mercotan or @What_Exit or someone more versed in the Tolkien legendarium to weigh in with more informed opinions. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/44 "2021-04-14T18:50:27Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > the Will of Sauron, which we know was far-reaching enough to cause a snowstorm on Caradhas. Off topic, I know, but: wasn’t the snow storm the will of _Caradhas_? I may be entirely mis-remembering this, but I thought the whole point of that episode was that there were Old Spirits in the world that had nothing to do with Sauron, but had their own agendas, and Caradhas’ agenda of not having Men crawling on it just happened to be in conflict with the Fellowship’s goals. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/45 "2021-04-14T19:04:26Z")
Maybe. But Gandalf certainly implied that Sauron had a hand in it: " ‘His arm has grown long indeed,’ said Gimli, ‘if he can draw snow down from the north to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.’ ‘His arm has grown long,’ said Gandalf." ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/46 "2021-04-14T19:11:16Z")
The Ringwraith’s powers were weaker the further from Mordor they were. Not stated, but probably based on their ties to both the rings and Sauron himself. When the Witch King was ruling Angmar and bring done the kingdoms of the North, he seemed especially powerful and thus why I suspect he may have had his ring at the time. Also Sauron was apparently in Dol Guldur at the time and thus a bit closer though relatively weak still. Despite great powers, the Witch King still ran away from Glorfindel. > As the Witch-king laughed at this, Glorfindel rode up on his white horse, and in mid laugh, the Witch-king fled into the darkness of the night. Sauron had placed a great deal of his innate powers into the Ring and did indeed seem to tap that power, but with the Ring his powers would be far greater. * * * > [@gdave](#): > > Off topic, I know, but: wasn’t the snow storm the will of _Caradhas_ ? I may be entirely mis-remembering this, but I thought the whole point of that episode was that there were Old Spirits in the world that had nothing to do with Sauron, but had their own agendas, and Caradhas’ agenda of not having Men crawling on it just happened to be in conflict with the Fellowship’s goals. I agree, it was the will a cruel Mountain Spirit of Caradhras. Tolkien states they were defeated by the ill will of the mountain. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/47 "2021-04-14T19:25:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > wraithified I’m really liking this word! LOL ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/48 "2021-04-14T20:20:13Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Could the Ringwraiths _use_ their Rings? Did those Rings grant them any special abilities, or sustain them in some way? The rings would make them invisible, afaik, so no, they didnt use them. Didnt Saruman cause the snow on Caradhas? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/49 "2021-04-14T20:21:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Saruman causes the snow on Caradhas. Nothing states that. Also it is _Caradhras_ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/50 "2021-04-14T20:31:17Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > [@What\_Exit](#): > > > > The Ring Wraiths did not carry their Rings by the time of the War. That much is clear. Don’t forget, many Ringwraiths were disincorporated by the flood unleashed by Elrond & Gandalf at the Fords of Bruinen. > > > > The Rings were not lost in said flood. > > > > Sauron had them gathered somewhere. Most likely Barad-dûr but possibly elsewhere > > Could the Ringwraiths _use_ their Rings? Did those Rings grant them any special abilities, or sustain them in some way? Because if the Nine Rings were hidden away in Sauron’s underwear drawer in Barad-dur, but the Ringwraiths were able to draw on their power all the way up in Eriador, then why did Sauron need actual physical possession of the One Ring? Surely he could have claimed its power as soon as Frodo left Lothlórien, or crossed the Anduin, or certainly when he entered Mordor. > > Which suggests that the Ringwraiths _didn’t_ use their rings, but were sustained by the Will of Sauron, which we know was far-reaching enough to cause a snowstorm on Caradhas. And that using a Ring required possession of it. Gollum has some powers even without the Ring - such as immortality. The Witch-King had some powers even before he took his ring. So it’s possible that the Wraiths are using some of the powers of their rings by virtue of their long association with their rings (connection with Sauron and the dark spirit realm, control of fell-beasts) - and are otherwise using their native powers (sorcery, great battle skill, etc). Wearing their rings would give them more power - but put them in a position to actually oppose Sauron - and old Rimless Eye isn’t having that. He’ll hold onto their rings, just to keep them safe, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/51 "2021-04-14T21:12:15Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Saruman causes the snow on Caradhas. > > Nothing states that. Also it is _Caradhras_ I misspelled it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/52 "2021-04-14T21:38:03Z")
None of the characters know for sure what ill will caused the storm-- Gandalf is just saying not to rule out Sauron as a possibility. Personally, I favor the spirit-of-the-mountain possibility, but that’s mostly because I think that Tolkien’s world is more interesting with more fey spirits in it (“fey” being a distinct category of being, that were much more prominent in the early drafts). ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/53 "2021-04-14T21:38:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Didnt Saruman cause the snow on Caradhas? I think that is a Peter Jackson invention. I’m not deep in the lore, but I remember thinking that was wrong when they showed it in the movie. I had (and have) a memory that it was the mountain itself that brought the snow. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/54 "2021-04-14T21:55:05Z")
I’m with Chonos – none of the characters know for sure, but the mountain itself is a strong possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/55 "2021-04-14T22:01:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > None of the characters know for sure what ill will caused the storm-- Gandalf is just saying not to rule out Sauron as a possibility. Personally, I favor the spirit-of-the-mountain possibility, but that’s mostly because I think that Tolkien’s world is more interesting with more fey spirits in it (“fey” being a distinct category of being, that were much more prominent in the early drafts) Yes. But that just goes to the point I was making - if Gandalf thought Sauron might be responsible for the snow on Caradhras, that suggests that Sauron’s will might be able to sustain and move his servants in some way, even when they’re far from Mordor. That Sauron controls his slaves thusly is made clear at the Morannon, when Frodo claims the Ring and Sauron suddenly sees his danger: > [@The Return of the King](#): > > From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/56 "2021-04-15T00:03:35Z")
The films implied it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/57 "2021-04-15T00:06:06Z")
The films aren’t accurate in many areas however. The Professor never implied it at all. Peter Jackson \< J.R.R. Tolkien as a resource on Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/58 "2021-04-15T00:11:28Z")
I accept that. Still, since Saruman was right there, it kinda make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/59 "2021-04-15T00:32:04Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Wearing their rings would give them more power - but put them in a position to actually oppose Sauron - I wouldn’t think that would be the case. The rings were designed to entrap the wearers. The rings gave them powers, but that was secondary to their main purpose, of turning them into ringwraiths under Sauron’s complete control. I would say that when they were wearing their rings, that is when Sauron’s control of the Nine would be at the highest point. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868/60 "2021-04-15T01:05:28Z")
Maybe, maybe not. While Sauron helped forge them, they were made by Celebrimbor. Sauron knew the secrets of their forging and could subvert them through the One Ring, but he did not make them himself. Remember, even knowing the secrets of the Rings and with the One Ring, he still couldn’t control the Dwarves, only enflame their greed and wrath. The 7 did not even turn the Dwarves invisible. BTW: the writings indicate that 4 of the Dwarven Rings were destroyed by Dragon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-nine-rings/939868.md?page=4)