# What happened to the secret ballot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537 "2004-11-02T14:05:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/1 "2004-11-02T14:05:38Z")
My polling place, for the first time as far as I know, marked the form that I signed with the number that was hand written in magic marker on my ballot. They also took great care to stack the forms in the same order that they were handed out. How is that a secret ballot? It would be trivial to match up the ballot with the voter, and even use the registered party affliation to weed out ballots of one party or the other. What gives? They might as well put your name directly on the ballot! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/2 "2004-11-02T14:19:50Z")
From Dilbert: The Pointy-Haired Boss asks Dilbert to fill out a survey of employee attitudes towards their bosses. “It’s totally anonymous, so you don’t have to fear any retribution.” PHB: “Oops! It looks like your questionarie is a bit dog-eared. I’ll put my phone number on the confidential envelope in case you need me. You can use this green marker pen. Oh, and I took the liberty of checking off your ethic background as Eskimo. It’s just a statistical thing.” Dilbert: “Question 1. Does your boss clearly communicate your objectives?” ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/3 "2004-11-02T14:28:52Z")
I just contacted my state’s attorney, my congressional rep, and the cook county board of elections. the state’s attorney did not seem to care, but the board or elections seemed hot, and the person in the congressional rep encouraged me to report it to my local rep as well and to persue other ways. The board of elections person seemed very concerned. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/4 "2004-11-02T16:30:17Z")
Is this happening to anyone in any other precinct? Is there anyone who thinks this does not deny secret ballot? Does any one think that although it compromises the secret ballot, it is needed in these trying times? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/5 "2004-11-02T16:39:37Z")
> [@lee](#): > > My polling place, for the first time as far as I know, marked the form that I signed with the number that was hand written in magic marker on my ballot. They also took great care to stack the forms in the same order that they were handed out. How is that a secret ballot? It would be trivial to match up the ballot with the voter, and even use the registered party affliation to weed out ballots of one party or the other. What gives? They might as well put your name directly on the ballot! Where I worked as an election inspector in MI, we did the same thing with the applications to vote. We used the punch card system. While each ballot also had a number, this was on a perforated stub at the top. After the voter cast his ballot, he’d hand it to an election inspector who would tear off the stub, and place the ballot in a locked ballot box. There would have been NO way to link a ballot at the end of the day to a specific voter. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/6 "2004-11-02T17:03:21Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Where I worked as an election inspector in MI, we did the same thing with the applications to vote. We used the punch card system. While each ballot also had a number, this was on a perforated stub at the top. After the voter cast his ballot, he’d hand it to an election inspector who would tear off the stub, and place the ballot in a locked ballot box. There would have been NO way to link a ballot at the end of the day to a specific voter. I hope this is what is happening, but I did not see the number torn off. What did you do about voters who spoiled their ballot and needed a new one? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/7 "2004-11-02T17:06:25Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Where I worked as an election inspector in MI, we did the same thing with the applications to vote. We used the punch card system. While each ballot also had a number, this was on a perforated stub at the top. After the voter cast his ballot, he’d hand it to an election inspector who would tear off the stub, and place the ballot in a locked ballot box. There would have been NO way to link a ballot at the end of the day to a specific voter. That’s how it was today. We used ‘Accu-Vote’ sheets, where you use a pen to fill in, Scantron-esque, your choices. Top, with the number on it, is torn off before the the vote is feed to the reader-machine thingee. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/8 "2004-11-02T17:08:04Z")
Why would the ballots be hand numbered? Couldn’t receipt numbering be done ahead of time if that were the case? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/9 "2004-11-02T17:09:11Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I hope this is what is happening, but I did not see the number torn off. > > What did you do about voters who spoiled their ballot and needed a new one? Void the first ballot, and issue another. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/10 "2004-11-02T17:12:48Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Why would the ballots be hand numbered? Couldn’t receipt numbering be done ahead of time if that were the case? They are. Or were in my case at least. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/11 "2004-11-02T17:55:27Z")
I just talked to a friend in another county, he has the same thing happen. He said that no one tore off the number from his ballot, nor did the machine that checks for voting correctly seem to be equipped set up to tear off the number. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/12 "2004-11-02T18:01:11Z")
Isn’t this a way of guarding against voter fraud? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/13 "2004-11-02T18:05:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Isn’t this a way of guarding against voter fraud? If there is a way to connect individual cast ballots to voters names we don’t have a secret ballot. How does keeping track of who cast which ballot prevent fraud more than it gives opportunity for fraud? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-the-secret-ballot/272537/14 "2004-11-05T21:21:10Z")
> [@lee](#): > > If there is a way to connect individual cast ballots to voters names we don’t have a secret ballot. How does keeping track of who cast which ballot prevent fraud more than it gives opportunity for fraud? This is not true. In the U.K. we have such a system. Basically, you cannot know how someone voted, but if necessary an individual ballot paper can be validated or invalidated in cases of possible electoral fraud. And it has to go through the courts, which are beholden to the Monarch rather than the government.