# What happened to "There is no such thing as objective morality or right and wrong?"

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-there-is-no-such-thing-as-objective-morality-or-right-and-wrong/707301>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-there-is-no-such-thing-as-objective-morality-or-right-and-wrong/707301 "2014-12-15T16:52:53Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\
**Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-to-there-is-no-such-thing-as-objective-morality-or-right-and-wrong/707301/61 "2015-01-07T21:46:15Z")

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> [@BigT](#):
>
> . . . The point is that, if morality is subjective, there is no reason for me to punch you in face if I think it is right. . . .
> 
> Morality is not just “what I should do,” but “What you should do,” too. And that requires some level of objectivity, some appeal to something beyond just opinions.

You leave out a middle possibility.

Morality is not objective…but a bunch of people have subjectively thrown together a moral system which we use as the basis for most of our laws.

It isn’t provable from first principles, and it cannot be deduced scientifically. It’s like patio furniture: it’s just something we humans devised and made up, because it seems to serve our perceived needs.

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