# What happened with Saturn cars? Why did they go under? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189 "2017-11-30T22:28:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/21 "2017-12-01T15:41:01Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Comparing the price posted on the vehicle with what internet sites said should be paid always showed that they were overpriced. Why would anybody pay more than they should? I don’t deal with sales people who apply pressure; I just ask for a different salesman or even the sales manager. Edmunds used to list the sticker price and should price on Saturns as alsmot the same, maybe $100 difference. So I am gonna need a cite on that. No one I know who bought a Saturn thought they were overpriced. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/22 "2017-12-01T15:44:24Z")
> [@Miss\_Mapp](#): > > Same here. Saturn SL2 in 1996, and when that gave its life so that I walked away with only minor bruises from a crash in 2002, I bought another one just like it. When the 2002 SL2 began to have problems last year, I reluctantly traded it in. I would have got another Saturn if such a thing were available, but ended up with a Hyundai. Yeah, my SO had a truck veer into her lane, so she veered into the left shoulder- but there really wasnt much of one, and bounced off the concrete divider. No one was hurt, but when she stopped and examined the damge, all you could see were scratches. No dents, no dings, no body shop. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/23 "2017-12-01T15:45:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Edmunds used to list the sticker price and should price on Saturns as alsmot the same, maybe $100 difference. > > So I am gonna need a cite on that. No one I know who bought a Saturn thought they were overpriced. I don’t see how I could do that, since Saturns haven’t been made for nine years now. It’s just my recollection, as is yours. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/24 "2017-12-01T15:53:14Z")
> **[Saturn: Secrets of the 'no-haggle' price - Sep. 21, 2006](https://money.cnn.com/2006/09/19/autos/debating_no-haggle/)** > > Few people actually like the process of haggling for the best price on a new car. In fact, almost two-thirds of car shoppers in a recent survey said they would prefer to pay a single, set price. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/25 "2017-12-01T16:05:21Z")
Part of the reason is that the UAW agreed to a unique contract for its Saturn workers that had few job classifications, productivity bonuses, lots of training, and a voice in almost all decisions for workers. Four years later the UAW leader in charge of GM was replaced and the new guy hated the old contract and did everything he could to sabotage Saturn and return the Saturn workers to the regular GM contract. The iron law of oligarchy at work. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/26 "2017-12-01T17:19:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Saturn: Secrets of the 'no-haggle' price - Sep. 21, 2006](http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/19/autos/debating_no-haggle/) I actually came back to add a note and saw your link, which validates my memory in a way, particularly this bit: > [@](#): > > Saturn sells a version of that car called the Sky. Saturn dealers are, officially, at least, constrained from simply tacking a “dealer premium” onto the Sky even though that higher price might more accurately reflect its real market value. > Nevertheless, some Saturn dealerships are finding ways to get extra money for that car, according to a recent report in Automotive News, an industry newspaper. Some are requiring buyers to purchase expensive options or aftermarket products, the paper said. My note: I lived in Alaska at the time I looked at Saturns. In Alaska, it’s common for dealers to tack on a “location charge” (not to be confused with shipping), which can amount to several hundred dollars. It’s total bullshit, and I wouldn’t buy from dealers who tried to gouge customers like that. It may be that the Anchorage Saturn dealer was doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/27 "2017-12-01T17:36:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You may be thinking of NUMMI, the GM/Toyota plant that made the Geo Prizm, Chevy Nova, Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Toyota Corolla, and Toyota Tacoma. Or you may be thinking of the Geo line, with a series of cars produced by GM in joint ventures with Japanese companies or rebadged Japanese cars. > > The NUMMI plant is now the Tesla factory. It’s located in Fremont, Ca., in the S. F. Bay Area. Back in the day (1970’s) there used to be water tower at the plant, long gone now. There also used to be a drag strip right across the street from it and a glider port next to that, surrounded by miles of cow pastures. For brand new student pilots who didn’t know their way around the skies yet, that water tower was visible for miles around so we could find our way back. The car plant is still there. The water tower, drag strip, glider port, and nearby general aviation airport, and cow pastures are all long gone. Now, it’s all shopping malls, apartments, condos from horizon to horizon as far as the eye can see. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/28 "2017-12-01T18:14:08Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I had two Saturns. Loved 'em, would have bought more. Now I drive Japanese cars. Way to go GM. Same for me, except it was more than two. We bought Saturns for the kids and I drove one. Damn good cars. GM totally screwed the pooch on this. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/29 "2017-12-01T20:41:22Z")
After I bought a Saturn, one of my sons said, “Way to buy a GM car, Mom.” Because I had resolved never again. It really surprised me; obviously I had not done my homework. So the Saturn was a surprisingly successful departure for GM, and they shut it down. Sure, that makes sense. But I loved that car, although I admit it did have faults. The panels covering the electrical stuff on the console in the front would never stay in place, for instance. I actually should keep this in the present tense, because I still have and drive this car although it’s not my main ride any more. Would buy another if available. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/30 "2017-12-01T21:37:58Z")
I think the OP might be conflating Saturn with [Eagle.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_(automobile)) Eagle was a division of Chrysler, some of whose models were produced jointly by Chrysler and Mitsubishi, hence a Japanese connection. Eagle was in fact created specifically to compete with Saturn. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/31 "2017-12-01T21:58:44Z")
I’m still driving a 2001 SL2. I love it and since we’re paying a car payment on another car, I’d be content to keep it for another 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Deanna\_D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Deanna\_D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deanna_D)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/32 "2017-12-02T00:01:25Z")
My most beloved car ever was a 1996 SC2. Awesome car. I loved the dent-resistant body panels, and I still don’t get why other car manufacturers don’t use that technology. And, not that I actually would, but I also appreciated the fact that Saturns were billed as being easy to work on yourself. I attended a few owner seminars that showed owners how easy it was to perform simple maintenance and repairs yourself. I would definitely buy another Saturn if I could. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/33 "2017-12-02T04:03:04Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Eagle was in fact created specifically to compete with Saturn. Well, sort of. If that article’s accurate, Lee Iacocca had a different plan for taking on Saturn (the Liberty brand, which never made it to production). But, at about that same time, Chrysler bought AMC, in order to get Jeep, and they started the Eagle brand name because they had contractual obligation to keep making some of the old AMC cars (and it also gave the old AMC dealer network a car line to sell). ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/34 "2017-12-02T04:38:09Z")
The Saturn Sky / Pontiac Solstice was one of the best looking cars of that era. Too bad it was a GM POS under that gorgeous body. [Saturn Sky](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1TSNO_enUS520US538&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=ByoiWsL1NYLijwPm9r6gDQ&q=saturn+sky&oq=saturn+sky&gs_l=psy-ab.3...164215.167111.0.167727.9.9.0.0.0.0.1209.1209.7-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..8.1.1208...0j0i67k1.0.Cs0cweo2fnA#imgrc=1ACuWOSJFs6JHM:) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/35 "2017-12-02T05:01:57Z")
I had a girlfriend with a Saturn. I remember driving it and turning on the A/C and it was like dropping an anchor. 😃 Not a bad car overall, however. I thought it was okay. It got stolen, but recovered. She absolutely wouldn’t have it again, and traded it for a Ford Explorer (with the bad Firestone tires) and one of them blew, rolling her down the highway and nearly killing her. What were we talking about? ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/36 "2017-12-02T17:07:39Z")
I remember when Saturn started. For months I looked around, trying to identify one in the wild. I eventually ended up parking behind one and finally noticed “Saturn” inconspicuously stamped into the rear bumper, in the same color as the bumper. I looked the car over, and realized I had probably been seeing them for a while, but there was nothing conspicuous enough (including badging) to set them apart from other cars on the road. I still think if you’re gonna start a new car company, _make the cars stand out visually from the competition._ ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/37 "2017-12-02T17:24:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I remember a news article profiling the Japanese managers that ran the Saturn plant in Tennessee. Their style of management wasn’t going over too well. The pep rally before the shift started. Group Exercises etc. Common in Japan. But the Tennessee workers didn’t understand that culture. > > I got the impression the culture gap wasn’t anything that couldn’t be worked out. [Gung Ho](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091159/?ref_=nv_sr_1) was a documentary? ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/38 "2017-12-03T15:09:11Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I remember when Saturn started. For months I looked around, trying to identify one in the wild. I eventually ended up parking behind one and finally noticed “Saturn” inconspicuously stamped into the rear bumper, in the same color as the bumper. I looked the car over, and realized I had probably been seeing them for a while, but there was nothing conspicuous enough (including badging) to set them apart from other cars on the road. > > I still think if you’re gonna start a new car company, _make the cars stand out visually from the competition._ In about 1993, I saw an interesting-looking car on the highway, and decided to follow it to determine what it was. I eventually managed to read the engraved SATURN marking on the back… just when the driver braked because of traffic and I slammed into it. It cost me a bundle to fix my hood and bumper. That turned out to be my first encounter with a Saturn SC (not sure if SC1 or SC2). I was used to seeing the four-door SL1 by then, a guy at the office had one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/39 "2017-12-03T21:53:32Z")
> [@Deanna\_D](#): > > My most beloved car ever was a 1996 SC2. Awesome car. > > I loved the dent-resistant body panels, and I still don’t get why other car manufacturers don’t use that technology. . The auto industry makes Big Bux from selling those easily dented and damaged parts after accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189/40 "2017-12-04T01:19:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The auto industry makes Big Bux from selling those easily dented and damaged parts after accidents. Service parts aren’t a huge profit center for us. The choice of materials inevitably comes down to production cost. This is a major part of the business that I participate in, and I can confirm unequivocally that potential profits from repair and replacement costs is never, ever, ever, ever, brought up when deciding on the material and manufacturing strategy for exterior panels. It’s entirely about weight, manufacturing cost, customer acceptance, material cost, and potential TGW’s (things-gone-wrong, meaning, warranty costs). One might argue that “customer acceptance” means they’d prefer plastic doors, but honestly, if it adds $200 bucks to the price of a car, they suddenly care a lot less, overall. I was at Honda last week, and the take rate on the carbon fiber roof option was about 10%, because even when talking about $160,000 cars, people tend to be frugal about cost-benefit. The vast majority of normal car purchasers never need dent-and-ding resistance. You probably never think about it either, except for that **one time** some idiot let his shopping cart bump into your car (out of the 150 in the carpark). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happened-with-saturn-cars-why-did-they-go-under/803189.md?page=3)