# What happens after reporting a merchant who accepts credit cards improperly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883 "2009-03-26T17:12:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/21 "2009-03-26T21:42:33Z")
I assume it would be legal for the merchant to say “Credit card purchases under $xx.xx will require the addition of a yy¢ transaction fee.” If so, this would fulfill the obligation with Visa without causing a loss to the merchant. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/22 "2009-03-26T21:46:45Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I assume it would be legal for the merchant to say “Credit card purchases under $xx.xx will require the addition of a yy¢ transaction fee.” If so, this would fulfill the obligation with Visa without causing a loss to the merchant. Naw. From the [Visa Merchant Agreement](http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:iGS0CuaUvPoJ:usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf+Visa+merchant+agreement&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a): > [@](#): > > No surcharging (page 15): > > Always treat Visa transactions like any other transaction; that is, **you may not > impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction**. You may, however, offer a discount > for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers > and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for > all other forms of payment. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/23 "2009-03-26T21:50:30Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I assume it would be legal for the merchant to say “Credit card purchases under $xx.xx will require the addition of a yy¢ transaction fee.” If so, this would fulfill the obligation with Visa without causing a loss to the merchant. Not only would this be a violation of the merchant agree, per **Reply** ’s post, but in some states, like California, it would also be a violation of the law. Here in California, merchants are forbidden to impose a surcharge for using a credit card. They are permitted to offer a discount for cash, but that discount must apply to ALL customers and ALL transactions where cash is used, not just those above or below a certain amount. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/24 "2009-03-26T21:53:21Z")
As for the general point of the thread, as others have noted, complaints will have basically zero effect. The fact is that Visa isn’t especially interested in enforcing it, because Visa makes plenty of profit even from merchants who have minimum purchase rules. While i occasionally get annoyed if a place has a minimum and i don’t have cash on me, i’m really not interested in investing too much time and effort just to allow Visa to squeeze a bit more money out of a small business owner. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/25 "2009-03-26T21:54:14Z")
It seems to me like a dick move to report a local business for an issue like this. If you need to use your credit card, go somewhere that wants you to pay with your credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/26 "2009-03-26T21:56:56Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Not only would this be a violation of the merchant agree, per **Reply** ’s post, but in some states, like California, it would also be a violation of the law. Violating the law sounds more severe. I accept that my solution would violate the merchant’s agreement (come to think of it, I seem to remember that I was told this once before in a GQ thread), but then again, the business is already violating the merchant agreement. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/27 "2009-03-26T22:04:26Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > See, **SeanArenas**! I told you no one would take us seriously without the costume and cape :mad: “No Capes!!!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/28 "2009-03-26T22:10:31Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > How come McDonald’s and Carl’s Jr. gleefully take my AmEx for the tiniest transaction (I used it for a soda the other day and the server didn’t bat an eye), but other places raise a fuss or post signs which are in clear violation? > . It’s easier for a big corporation to absorb such losses than the mom & op down the street. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/29 "2009-03-26T22:31:02Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Violating the law sounds more severe. I accept that my solution would violate the merchant’s agreement (come to think of it, I seem to remember that I was told this once before in a GQ thread), but then again, the business is already violating the merchant agreement. Violating the merchant agreement might actually be worse. Visa can impose penalties against the merchant for violation of the agreement (though it seldom does). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/30 "2009-03-26T22:54:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s easier for a big corporation to absorb such losses than the mom & op down the street. Losses? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/31 "2009-03-26T23:19:53Z")
> [@Lama\_Pacos](#): > > It seems to me like a dick move to report a local business for an issue like this. If you need to use your credit card, go somewhere that wants you to pay with your credit card. That’s why I said to tell the merchant that if they don’t change their policies, they’ll lose your business. Then to follow through. They won’t know why you’re not shopping there any more if you don’t tell them. And it gives them an opportunity to do what’s right. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s easier for a big corporation to absorb such losses than the mom & op down the street. McDonald’s, Dairy Queen and other fast food places franchise out, very few (if any) locations are owned by the main corporation. The local McDonald’s that will let you use your credit or debit card for a $1.00 order of fries is just as likely owned by an individual (or individual family) than a corporation, and even if it is a corporation, they likely operate a small handful of fast food places around one town. Does a McDonald’s have a higher volume of customers than Frannie’s Fro-Yo Fantasies? Sure. But it’s not the magnitude of difference you’re suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/32 "2009-03-26T23:22:14Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > . Does a McDonald’s have a higher volume of customers than Frannie’s Fro-Yo Fantasies? Sure. But it’s not the magnitude of difference you’re suggesting. And, if was an actual loss, then high volume just makes it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/33 "2009-03-26T23:33:31Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Falsely disputing a charge is fraud. You are falsely claiming you didn’t authorize the charge. But there are multiple reasons for disputing a charge, aside from simply indicating that you didn’t authorize it. For example, you asked for a refund for a product and they wouldn’t give it you (e.g., purchase the minimum, and return the item you didn’t really want). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/34 "2009-03-26T23:38:56Z")
You people deserve to be pitted. You are actually eager to force a local merchant to raise his prices on all items?!?!?! This benefits who how?!?! If you insist on paying for everything with a credit card you are essentially agreeing to a 4% bank tax on all purchases. How would you feel if your city raised it’s sales taxes by 3-4%? Yes, lets fight with the local merchants so that Bank of America, Chase and the other banks can make bigger profits. How has this worked out for the country as of late? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/35 "2009-03-27T00:10:21Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > But there are multiple reasons for disputing a charge, aside from simply indicating that you didn’t authorize it. For example, you asked for a refund for a product and they wouldn’t give it you (e.g., purchase the minimum, and return the item you didn’t really want). That’s not what he was describing. [QUOTE=Markxxx] And if they fail to answer in the correct amount of time, you win and get the item free. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/36 "2009-03-27T01:27:58Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You people deserve to be pitted. You are actually eager to force a local merchant to raise his prices on all items?!?!?! This benefits who how?!?! > > If you insist on paying for everything with a credit card you are essentially agreeing to a 4% bank tax on all purchases. How would you feel if your city raised it’s sales taxes by 3-4%? On average, it’s more like 2%. And, cash cost also- there’s hold-up insurance, bank fees for excess cash deposits, and armored car pick ups. These add at least 1% to cash. So the net is maybe 1%. If that. And of course, the business has every right to simply not take CC at all. No one forces them to do so. But if they\* choose \*to do so, then they should play by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/37 "2009-03-27T03:55:36Z")
Borrowed from [http://creditboards.com/forums/](http://creditboards.com/forums/) Visa Phone Number: 1-800-VISA-911 (International: 1-410-581-9994) and you can also call the number on the back of your card Mailing Address: Visa U.S.A. Inc. P.O. Box 194607 San Francisco, California 94119-4607 Online: Your card issuer’s website may let you send them complaints about merchant violations and start a dispute if your were charged a fee to use your card. MasterCard Phone Number: 1-800-MASTERCARD (International: 1-636-722-7111) and you can also call the number on the back of your card. Online: [http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html](http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html) (Also you may be able to dispute a charge online if you were charged a fee.) American Express Phone Number: 1-800-528-4800 (International: 1-336-393-1111) Mailing Address: American Express P.O. Box 297812 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33329-7812 Online: Login to your account at [www.americanexpress.com](http://www.americanexpress.com) and then click e-mail on the right side. You can also dispute a charge online if you were charged a fee to use your card. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/38 "2009-03-27T11:48:16Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You people deserve to be pitted. You are actually eager to force a local merchant to raise his prices on all items?!?!?! This benefits who how?!?! > > If you insist on paying for everything with a credit card you are essentially agreeing to a 4% bank tax on all purchases. How would you feel if your city raised it’s sales taxes by 3-4%? > > Yes, lets fight with the local merchants so that Bank of America, Chase and the other banks can make bigger profits. How has this worked out for the country as of late? Well, if my stocks and mutual funds in the banks were to go up by 3%-4%, I’d be happy with it. Keep in mind who earns the profits. Big corporations aren’t like Scrooge McDuck wherein they stockpile all of their money in huge vaults. Seriously, though, no one forces local merchants to do anything. They sink or swim. If they have to increase prices, they’ll do so. If that causes everyone to run to the competition, they either find other ways to save money and lower prices, or they go out of business. We don’t live (yet) in a society where “fairness” equates to “at least he tries” (although judging by companies that deal in credit default swaps, we’re heading that way ;).) ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/39 "2009-03-27T12:42:05Z")
Does anyone know if these Visa or MC T&C apply outside the United States, particularly in the UK? I have never heard of anyone complaining about not being able to pay for small value items with a credit card in a small shop - it’s just accepted as a reasonable decision by the trader. I’ve more often heard people complain about the \*\*!\*! who insists on buying a 50p item with a cc and holding up the queue. 😃 In the UK I’ve also never had a merchant ask for proof of ID when using a card so this seems to be another non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883/40 "2009-03-27T13:21:23Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Does anyone know if these Visa or MC T&C apply outside the United States, particularly in the UK? > [@](#): > > On and after 7th March 1991, this Order makes it unlawful for any person to make or carry out any agreement relating to credit cards to the extent that it imposes or requires the imposition of a “no discrimination rule”. A “no discrimination rule” prohibits merchants from charging different prices to those who pay by credit card rather than by another means of payment. All such existing agreements must be terminated before 7th March 1991. [The Credit Cards (Price Discrimination) Order 1990](http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1990/Uksi_19902159_en_1.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-after-reporting-a-merchant-who-accepts-credit-cards-improperly/490883.md?page=3)