Good info, thank you. I bow in your direction.
Now Bear, who is a generally intelligent and knowledgeable poster, seems to think that these conflict with the ACLU’s site. Is he reading too much into it? Or is the ACLU being overly optimistic or vague?
Oh get over yourself, he was only shoved over and the footage before that showed he was being an arse (walking slowly in front of the police). There’s certainly evidence this lead to his death and the officer was definitely in the wrong but calling it “government sanctioned murder” is an exaggeration to the point where it becomes shameful.
Maybe the day of arraignment or maybe in a low-level misdemeanor case. In the hundreds of Illinois case records I’ve seen, I’ve never seen one without obvious signs of a lawyer’s (usually PD’s) ongoing participation–even in cases that end in a guilty plea. Defendants always complain that the PDs are ignoring them, and certainly most of them aren’t getting as much attention as would be ideal. Three or four meetings and several phone calls seems typical. The (fortunately rare) instances I’ve seen of lawyers really screwing things up have been with lawyers in general practice somehow wandering into a criminal case. That can be a disaster.
I have no way of proving who I am here, but I am a lawyer with a lot of experience in criminal law, albeit at the appellate level. The ACLU cite site is one I know as a reputable source.
It’s not that they are not a legitimate organization. That isn’t what I was trying to say. I just mean they are not a legitimate legal cite. They even put a disclaimer on their site that says it should not be taken as legal advise and that laws may vary by location. So they are a good site for general information, but are not a legitimate cite (with a “C”). I would have expected them to actually provide cites on their site, but they didn’t have any.
FWIW, I sent them an email explaining that the wording on their Bust Card is misleading at best and suggested changes to make it more universal and prevent potential misunderstandings on the part of the card carrier. I asked them for clarification on their view, their opinion of what I have pointed out, and any legal cites which would justify their decision to not make any changes.
My email has made it past the initial review and is being forwarded to their legal department. I will let everyone know what their response is.
BTW, I apologize for the tone of my response to you at #24 and #31, DrDeth. At the time, the “Umm, perhaps . . .” reply from you seemed a bit condescending and dismissive. Must have been one of those days. The Stan will do that to ya, I guess.
Yes, and I was being a too defensive myself. Sorry.
Good to see they are listening. I think it’s really more a matter of wording and interpretation. Perhaps they need to make that more clear.
I’d say they were trying to simplify for a lay audience, and perhaps that statement was originally designed for distribution in a state like CA, that does give arrestee’s a statutory right to be informed of the charges, especially if the arrestee asks. The site doesn’t say you have a constitutional right to learn the reason for arrest–it just says you have a right. Beyond that, I’ve not done a 50 state survey on the issue of right to learn the charges, so it could also be that just about every state gives arrestees those rights.
I’ll also be interested to see the result of Bear_Nenno’s email, and I hope he will bump this thread when he gets a response.
FWIW, as a practical matter, I’m not sure I would recommend some of the stuff the ACLU suggests. In most cases, you’re going to be fairly sure why you are being arrested anyway. And as the case I cited points out, if you are curious, you’re gonna find out soon enough anyway.
I’d really rather have a client say as little as possible during an uncounseled confrontation with the cops. And it’s not as if you’ll be able to talk them out of arresting you. I certainly don’t advise trying. So I guess, I don’t see the benefit of asking for the information–is it just so you can answer accurately when the other prisoners ask you what you’re in for?
thanks
There aren’t many websites where conversations get a bit testy and the members realize it and act like responsible adults. I love the Dope.
My suggestion there is to stare off into space and say, “They is saying I killed some folks; a fellas gotta eat, ya know”.
I was just about to say something similar, usually the argument escalates until the two parties start disliking one another etc, it’s things like this that made me sign up all those years ago.