# What happens if Donald Trump actually wins the 2024 Republican nomination under indictment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063 "2023-06-05T22:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Michael\_Varn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michael_varn/32/14411_2.png) [@Michael\_Varn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Varn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/61 "2023-06-12T20:09:58Z")
That’s not true, there were formal negotiations going on in a legal setting between Trump’s legal team and the National Archives. But you are right, Donald Trump himself was not present during any formal negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/62 "2023-06-12T20:18:20Z")
He lied about them and hid them. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Varn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michael_varn/32/14411_2.png) [@Michael\_Varn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Varn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/63 "2023-06-12T20:18:28Z")
With the Trump document issue, the DOJ may have had a hidden agena with all of this. This is only a conspiracy theory, but the real motivation on the part of the DOJ may have been to recover Crossfire Hurricane documents before Trump could put them in the public domain. The idea behind this theory is there is much more damaging information in the CH documents that were revealed in the Mueller report where he explained why he didn’t indict Trump for Russian collusion. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/64 "2023-06-12T20:19:35Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > This is only a conspiracy theory, but the real motivation on the part of the DOJ may have been to recover Crossfire Hurricane documents before Trump could put them in the public domain. I think you need to bring Hunter Biden’s laptop into this to make it a fully fledged theory. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/65 "2023-06-12T20:24:03Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > This is only a conspiracy theory, but the real motivation on the part of the DOJ may have been to recover Crossfire Hurricane documents before Trump could put them in the public domain. I hate to say it…but your “Gorillagram Stalker” theory makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/66 "2023-06-12T20:32:31Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > Well, that’s not what Rachel Maddow thinks, and she speaks for alot of liberal Demicrats. > > In a segment with Lawrence O’Donnel on MSNBC, she seemed to imply in a roundabout way that she would accept this compromise, so why don’t you? This is NOT what she implied. She was really [Just Asking the Question](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/06/08/rachel_maddow_should_the_justice_department_offer_trump_a_plea_in_exchange_for_dropping_out_of_the_2024_election.html). A video clip is on that page. A couple of excerpts: _But you have to wonder if the Justice Department is considering whether there is some political solution to this criminal problem. Whether part of the issue here is not just that Trump has committed crimes, but that Trump has committed crimes and plans on being back in the White House. Do they consider, as part of a potential plea offer, something that would proscribe him, proscribe him from running for office again? I don’t know…_ And comparing this situation to the history of Spiro Agnew… _Now, I’m not saying that’s the way this should go for former President Trump. I’m just saying that, that is the closest allegory that we have got in history. And I do think that there isn’t that much that’s novel about Trump’s crime here. We’ve seen other politicians, inadvertently, take classified information. We’ve seen other former government officials put on trial for crimes like this. What we haven’t seen is somebody who’s been in the White House who has done it and who the Republican party wants to put back there._ So, it was more of a rhetorical question and not an actual proposal that she endorsed. And count me among those who say no way to a compromise. That’s not even a consideration - exchanging favorable terms under the mere _threat_ of him running for office. It is to laff! Let justice run it’s course. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/67 "2023-06-12T20:32:35Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > So, even though Trump may have broken the law, nobody really believes that Trump should go prison for 100 years over document dispute. Some progressives are extremely angry at Donald Trump and do believe he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. If you go through other Politics & Elections threads here, you will see it. If you go to conservative internet forums, you will find posters (and at least one member of congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene) who think that’s too good for Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, and call for them to be executed. Maybe the 100 years was a progressive scare tactic, or maybe a conservative scare tactic, or maybe both. But that number is implausible. You can check the sentencing guidelines [here.](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manual/2021/GLMFull.pdf) It may be the 100 years comes from thinking the penalties for the different charges would run consecutively. But accoriding to what I read, consecutive sentences would be for [“classic spies”](https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-legal-dynamics-of-trumps-second-indictment), and I’ve seen nothing close to proof of that. Trump did ask Russia for help getting electioneering dirt, but I haven’t heard evidence he gave help back by sneaking off to a dead drop. So Smith would ask for concurrent sentences. I’m for shorter prison sentences. I’m not crazy about the fact that the Espionage Act covers, well, non-espionage. I’m not even sure that prison is ever a good sanction for white collar criminals, although I could see putting them in jail on weekends (assuming they work during the week). Quickly firing people who violate security rules probably deters as well as the threat of an uncertain prison term starting years in the future. But you know what? [Trump signed a law increasing prison time](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-indicted-classified-documents-felony-1805561) for the type of offenses he allegedly committed. Just one more way he’s part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/68 "2023-06-12T20:33:09Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > That’s not true, there were formal negotiations going on in a legal setting between Trump’s legal team and the National Archives. > > But you are right, Donald Trump himself was not present during any formal negotiation. Depends on your definition of negotiation, I guess. I’m aware that they were in “talks” with Trump’s lawyers. But those talks seemed to consist of …… We know your client is hanging on to documents and we want them back. Here you go, now you have all the documents We are still missing documents… OK, here’s some more We are still missing documents… “Negotiation” seems to imply that the National Archives were willing to let Trump keep some documents, and they were ironing out the details. But that’s not what happened. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/69 "2023-06-12T20:34:37Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > If Donald Trump withdraws his candidacy for President in 2024 soon, or before the Republican primaries begin, would you guys and gals be O.K. with all of the indictments, Federal and state, being dropped? No. Justice matters. It’s frankly hard to believe anyone would think this would be good for the country. Good lord, the next person as corrupt as Trump will try to push the envelope just a bit more. And then again and again and again. If he would make a ‘deal’ to only 10 years in prison and it somehow gets ruled that he can never again hold ANY public office or start another piggy bank charity. I might consider it. This has RICO written all over it. All the way down from Trump through members of congress to the morons such as the leader of the ‘Oath keepers’ and everyone in between. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/70 "2023-06-12T20:59:21Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > When the timing is right, Trump could strategically fire his legal team, which means the new legal team will need even more time to prepare for the trial. Lawyers need permission to withdraw from a case. This is not a surefire strategy. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > Since the judge that is presiding over this case is a Trump appointed judge; however unlikely, does rhis judge have the authority to throw out the entire case just like that? > > You know the one about the documents and espianage? No. Not without being overturned on appeal. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > All 37 counts that could land Trump in prison for 100 years? That’s not a realistic sentence. He’d get concurrent sentences for each count. I mean, he’ll die in prison, but that’s because he’s fat and old. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > If Donald Trump withdraws his candidacy for President in 2024 soon, or before the Republican primaries begin, would you guys and gals be O.K. with all of the indictments, Federal and state, being dropped? That’s not how it works. You don’t get out of going to prison by just promising to not return to work. It didn’t work for the pedophile doctor I represented, and it won’t work for donald. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > There is not one shred of evidence that Trump did anything nefarious with these documents besides simple possession. Except sharing them with reporters and a member of his political action committee (Possibly Kid Rock). > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > And unlike Hillary Clinton’s classified emails, there is not one shred of evidence that the Trump documents were accessed by a foreign national from an adversarial country. Please, oh please, provide that evidence that Clinton’s “classified emails” were accessed by a “foreign national from an adversarial country.” Because there is plenty of evidence that _foreign spies_ had access to Mar-A-Lago, where donald kept boxes in unlocked rooms that were easily accessible. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > Next, a dispute insued between Trump and the national archives as to which documents he could keep, and which ones had to go back to the national archives or to the Trump presidential library. > > Finally, Trump lost the dispute, and at the end of the day, the government got their documents back, no harm done, and that’s the bottom line. donald lied about the location of the documents, hid them, then lied again about whether he had them. The government had to send in _FBI_ agents to finally get them back. And that’s assuming they got back everything. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > The only difference here between Trump’s documents, and documents taken by other former presidents, and one vice president is that Trump filed a formal challenge to keep them, which was the nature of the dispute. Except for the fact that donald shared the documents with unauthorized people, and obstructed attempts to locate and identify the documents, you are real spot on. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > This is only a conspiracy theory, but the real motivation on the part of the DOJ may have been to recover Crossfire Hurricane documents before Trump could put them in the public domain. donald has a history of _tweeting_ classified materials. You really think he was waiting to release something into the public domain? Why the wait? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/71 "2023-06-12T21:12:07Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > nobody really believes that Trump should go prison for 100 years over document dispute. Hey, an absolutely correct statement. No informed commentator is saying he should go to prison for 100 years. Unless of course you would like to offer an actual cite. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/72 "2023-06-12T21:13:22Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I think prison is out of the question, even to someone with as much hostility to Trump as I’ve felt for over 40 years of tasteless witless clueless behavior. My guess is he will be found guilty of some felony within a year, and sentenced to some sort of home confinement. Yep. But if he gets obnoxious enuf to the judge, there could be some real prison time. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > I have a question about Trump’s arraignment in Florida tommorow: > > Since the judge that is presiding over this case is a Trump appointed judge; however unlikely, does rhis judge have the authority to throw out the entire case just like that? Not for the arraignment. That will be a different, lower level judge. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > If Donald Trump withdraws his candidacy for President in 2024 soon, or before the Republican primaries begin, would you guys and gals be O.K. with all of the indictments, Federal and state, being dropped? Nope. If he is guilty, he gets convicted. But I would go for a nice plea deal with home arrest. > [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > How would you enforce it? Trump can say whatever, he doesn’t have a good record on living up to his word. You could if he plead _nolo contendere_ and the deal was he made that promise or 40 years in prison. I could see a real sweetheart deal. 1 year house arrest, 39 years suspended sentence. > [@Horatius](#): > > I’m curious, because I honestly can’t see how anyone reading that could think Trump is innocent enough to legitimately win this case. No, it would require a couple jurors to refuse a guilty verdict. And that does not mean a “corrupt” court system. That is the right of any juror. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > Even if I were to concede that Donald Trump was technically violateing federal law with the documents, I do not believe that he deserves to go to prison for 100 years. Nor do I. I suspect several years under house arrest and the rest suspended. If he pleads out. > [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > All former presidents as well as Joe Biden as Veep, just turned theirs over right away when requested by the national archives. Nor did they lie about them and try to hide them. Also their documents, while classified were of a low level, not Top Secret. Also their documents were locked up. > [@snowthx](#): > > Do they consider, as part of a potential plea offer, something that would proscribe him, proscribe him from running for office again? Yes, as part of a plea deal, that is reasonable. But that still means trump is guilty. Just not actual prison time. I can buy that. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Varn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michael_varn/32/14411_2.png) [@Michael\_Varn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Varn)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/73 "2023-06-13T12:55:01Z")
If you are old enough to remember the Bill Clinton administration, after he left office, he like Trump was the target of criminal probe. But, even though there was overwhelming evidence of felony wrongdoing on his part, the prosecutors did not have tunnel vision, and base their decision to indict or not indict on his wrongdoing alone. They considered other things that do not exist in a vacuum. Things like the good of the country, and other things like the consequences and repercussions of trying and/or sucessfully prosecuting and imprisoning a former president. In legal circles, when a prosecuter makes a decision along these lines, it is known as: Prossecutorial Discretion. This is why Bill Clinton was not indicted. I wonder if the the DOJ considered using prossecutorial discretion before they indicted Donald Trump? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/74 "2023-06-13T13:07:46Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > Prossecutorial Discretion. > This is why Bill Clinton was not indicted. > > I wonder if the the DOJ considered using prossecutorial discretion before they indicted Donald Trump? Bill Clinton was not prosecuted because: 1. his crimes were not likely to continue once he was out of office, and 2. if they did continue, those crimes were not likely to endanger the country. Trump is being prosecuted because: 1. he will definitely continue to commit his crimes (keeping top-secret documents in unsecure areas), and 2. his crimes are VERY likely to endanger the country. But, other than that,…yeah,…the two situations are the same. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/75 "2023-06-13T13:11:43Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > f you are old enough to remember the Bill Clinton administration, after he left office, he like Trump was the target of criminal probe. > > But, even though there was overwhelming evidence of felony wrongdoing on his part, the prosecutors did not have tunnel vision, and base their decision to indict or not indict on his wrongdoing alone. LOL! I assume you’re referring to the Marc Rich probe? John Ashcroft and the Bush Administration spent four years trying to build a case over Clinton’s pardon of Rich. They convened two grand juries, subpoenaed thousands of documents, and gave Rich’s wife an immunity deal in return for her testimony. The case didn’t die because federal prosecutors made some weighty decision about the best interest of the nation. It died because they couldn’t make a case. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/76 "2023-06-13T13:18:43Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > I would hate to be the secret service agent tasked to protect a president in jail. Since you brought it up… I believe congress can remove his secret service protection if they want to. It’s not something guaranteed in the constitution. If was provided by the legislature and can be removed the same way. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/77 "2023-06-13T13:22:49Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Because unlike so many Trumpists, we don’t take our marching orders from TV personalities? How dare I actually have my own independent thoughts on Trump’s impact on the decline of the United States. Well said. I love Rachel Maddow, but she doesn’t speak for me. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/78 "2023-06-13T13:23:36Z")
> [@Michael\_Varn](#): > > I wonder if the the DOJ considered using prossecutorial discretion before they indicted Donald Trump? Why? As noted, his crimes were ongoing. They indictment was necessary to stop this man from keeping, and sharing, state secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Varn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michael_varn/32/14411_2.png) [@Michael\_Varn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Varn)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/79 "2023-06-13T13:30:33Z")
Bill Clinton commited purgery in front of a federal judge during a sworn deposition in the Paula Jones case, which is a felony that carries a 7 year prison sentence. The running theme in this thread is all about truth and justice and being held accountable for the crimes people commit i.e. Donald Trump. But apparently, this only applies to Donald Trump. So, I will end my particiapation this thread on one final note: We will simply have to agree to disagree ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063/80 "2023-06-13T13:33:07Z")
And I’ve noticed the DOJ DIDN’T investigate any of Trump’s pardons, including his suspicious last minute pardon of Al Pirro. And if they try to investigate every time Trump commits perjury, they’ll need a bigger building. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-donald-trump-actually-wins-the-2024-republican-nomination-under-indictment/985063.md?page=5)