# What happens if fire trucks cause an accident? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481 "2014-10-16T12:02:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/1 "2014-10-16T12:02:21Z")
My son’s car was hit by a fire truck on its way to a fire. My son was legally parked. The fire truck cut the corner too closely and the fire department is going to fix it, but it got me to wondering … About 6 months ago, a BMW was parked in front of a fire hydrant when a fire broke out across the street. The FD smashed his windows to thread the hose through the car. Does the BMW owner get to fix his own windows as well as the $120 ticket? I live on a street where the road is about 28 feet wide. It’s residential and in the burbs, so few use it for parking. Yesterday, two construction vehicles were parked on both sides of the street. If a fire truck had to get through, it would have no choice but to side-swipe at least one of the vehicles. What happens in cases such as this? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/2 "2014-10-16T13:33:29Z")
Obviously the rules (law) will differ, but over here the driver of a fire engine, even if he/she is on their way to an emergency, does not have any more rights than an ordinary citizen. Here too, there is no law that says I have to get out of their way (though I obviously would). The same applies to all the emergency services. They are exempt from some rules - speeding for example, and they can drive through red lights and the wrong way up one way streets, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/3 "2014-10-16T14:03:17Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Here too, there is no law that says I have to get out of their way (though I obviously would). The same applies to all the emergency services. Where are you? The standard rule in most countries is that you MUST yield right of way to all approved emergency vehicles responding to a call. [http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$VAT1144$$@TXVAT01144+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=16645200+&TARGET=VIEW](http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$VAT1144$$@TXVAT01144+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=16645200+&TARGET=VIEW) > [@](#): > > ``` > § 1144. Operation of vehicles on approach of authorized emergency > > ``` > > vehicles. (a) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency > vehicle equipped with at least one lighted lamp exhibiting red light > visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five > hundred feet to the front of such vehicle other than a police vehicle or > bicycle when operated as an authorized emergency vehicle, and when > audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle by siren, exhaust > whistle, bell, air-horn or electronic equivalent; the driver of every > other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive > to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to the right-hand > edge or curb of the roadway, or to either edge of a one-way roadway > three or more lanes in width, clear of any intersection, and shall stop > and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has > passed, unless otherwise directed by a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/4 "2014-10-16T15:34:56Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Where are you? About bob++ Location Worcestershire UK ETA: I don’t mean to seem saucy by pointing this out. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/5 "2014-10-16T16:08:42Z")
The Beemer guy got what he deserved. It’s illegal to park in front of a fire hydrant precisely because the fire department might need to use that hydrant in an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/6 "2014-10-16T16:15:00Z")
Rule 219 in The Highway Code covers it. This Code is not law, but official advice which sets out how road users should behave: > [@](#): > > Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. > > You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you. A County Police website has this: > [@](#): > > Your first instinct will be to try to get out of the way as quickly as possible in order to let the vehicle pass, and this is what most of us would do, but is it the right thing to do? > The Highway Code indicates that you should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police cars and any other emergency vehicles, whenever you are on the road. > > The important thing to remember at this point is not to panic. Above all, remember that you are responsible for your own actions on the road, regardless of the presence of an emergency vehicle, so you should move out of the way when it is safe and appropriate for you to do so without contravening road laws, or endangering yourself or anyone else in the area. We don’t have fire hydrants either. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/7 "2014-10-16T16:22:58Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Obviously the rules (law) will differ, but over here the driver of a fire engine, even if he/she is on their way to an emergency, does not have any more rights than an ordinary citizen. Here too, there is no law that says I have to get out of their way (though I obviously would). The same applies to all the emergency services. > > They are exempt from some rules - speeding for example, and they can drive through red lights and the wrong way up one way streets, but that’s about it. You may be confusing emergency lights with courtesy lights or even the yellow typically construction vehicle warning lights. Around here Emergency lights also must be accompanied by some audio warning system, you have to yield right of way legally if safe to do so. Courtesy lights, such as EMT, Volunteer firefighters use in their personal vehicle it is not required (though officers can have true emergency lights in their personal vehicle). The difference is usually the color of the lights, but that is somewhat changing as it appears that different colors have other drivers react differently and police especially seem to like to chose their color regardless of the standards based on the needs. Warning lights really have to do with warning you that the vehicle may not be operating in a expected manner and has nothing to do with yielding. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/8 "2014-10-16T16:25:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > You may be confusing emergency lights with courtesy lights or even the yellow typically construction vehicle warning lights. Nope, he’s right for the UK according to the link he provided. It’s very clear that rule 219 is not a requirement or it would have MUST/MUST NOT. Since it uses SHOULD it is not enforceable. Odd to American ideas, but that’s the law. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/9 "2014-10-16T16:28:02Z")
AFAIK, the Beemer driver is screwed and deserves it. He’ll have to fix his own windows, and I’m pretty sure that the insurance company would refuse to cover the damages even if they were above his deductible. As for the potential construction side-swipe…my guess would be that the city and construction company would work it out. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/10 "2014-10-16T16:31:12Z")
In Chicago, if the fire truck was not on an emergency run and was at fault, the city is liable. Expect it to take about a year for the check to arrive, though. (Source: personal experience. And the truck was in its way to a 9/11 memorial when it creamed me. Somehow I felt like the jerk there, even though it wasn’t my fault and nothing I could have done would have prevented it. Rookie didn’t know the clearance he needed.) They would not be liable for the BMW parked in front of the hydrant. And, I gotta tell ya, firefighters love that shit. They will gleefully break the windows of a car and route the hose right through it. Can’t say that I blame them. Breaking glass is fun. Making an asshole’s day miserable is even funner. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/11 "2014-10-16T16:35:27Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > We don’t have fire hydrants either. [You don’t?](http://www.hwfire.org.uk/your_fire_service/hydrants.html) Maybe you’re using a more restrictive definition of “we” than “Worcestershire”. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Toastmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Toastmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toastmaker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/12 "2014-10-16T16:35:33Z")
Well, where I used to live if a firetruck hit a citizens car, the police would line up each fireman on that truck and slap them briskly, allowing the car owner to watch. Then all went their separate ways. . . ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/13 "2014-10-16T16:37:17Z")
To the OP - sometimes some of the cost comes out of the insurance of the building owner who had the fire, so the claim may go against that, after all it was the fault of the fire, not the fire dept who was obligated to put it out. Whenever we use foam instead of water to put out water we usually put in a insurance claim for that cost (which they usually pay as foam causes less damage then water - saving them money). ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/14 "2014-10-16T17:13:25Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > [You don’t?](http://www.hwfire.org.uk/your_fire_service/hydrants.html) > > Maybe you’re using a more restrictive definition of “we” than “Worcestershire”. 😕 Fire hydrants in the UK are in the ground under a metal lid, as you can see in the picture from your link. I don’t drive, but I’ve never heard that it’s necessary or even considerate to avoid parking near one here. Presumably, parked cars aren’t a significant problem when accessing hydrants here. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/15 "2014-10-16T17:23:34Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > [You don’t?](http://www.hwfire.org.uk/your_fire_service/hydrants.html) > > Maybe you’re using a more restrictive definition of “we” than “Worcestershire”. 😕 It’s England, so they probably call them “flamey-loo spray-whiskers” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/16 "2014-10-16T18:12:04Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Fire hydrants in the UK are in the ground under a metal lid, as you can see in the picture from your link. He said the UK (or possibly Worcestershire or the Midlands or whatever) _doesn’t have them_. > [@](#): > > I don’t drive, but I’ve never heard that it’s necessary or even considerate to avoid parking near one here. You’ve been here long enough to know that “I’ve never heard of it so it isn’t true” [doesn’t work](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/21/section/42). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/17 "2014-10-16T19:47:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He said the UK (or possibly Worcestershire or the Midlands or whatever) _doesn’t have them_. > > You’ve been here long enough to know that “I’ve never heard of it so it isn’t true” [doesn’t work](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/21/section/42). Indeed, the very link I posted says that “it is an offence to obstruct a fire hydrant, for example, by inconsiderate parking which could place lives at risk, or causing damage to a fire hydrant,” per the very law given in your citation. A) The UK does indeed have fire hydrants. They are apparently not standpipes the way we on the left side of the Atlantic think of them, but they are hydrants nonetheless. B) As of 2004, it’s as illegal to interfere with a fire hydrant in the UK (by, to give a very specific example, parking in front of it) as it is in most US jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/18 "2014-10-16T22:21:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He said the UK (or possibly Worcestershire or the Midlands or whatever) _doesn’t have them_. **bob++** said that, yeah. And I said we do. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’ve been here long enough to know that “I’ve never heard of it so it isn’t true” [doesn’t work](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/21/section/42). I said I’ve never heard of it, not that it’s not true. I don’t need the SDMB to know my own experiences and reality aren’t the same. I was more interested in the fact that I have more knowledge of the laws regarding obstruction of fire hydrants in the US than here, and a quick Google search suggests a lot of other people are in the same position. The legislation you linked to doesn’t tell us what constitutes an “obstruction”, which probably doesn’t help. The idea that it includes parking near, rather than over, a fire hydrant seems to be just an assumption. But again, that doesn’t mean it’s _not true_ that you should avoid parking near one, just that it’s unclear so far. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/19 "2014-10-18T14:23:04Z")
Bozuit, laws vary by state/local authority; Ohio revised code; in part; 4511.68 Parking - prohibited acts. (A) No person shall stand or park a trackless trolley or vehicle, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or to comply with sections 4511.01 to 4511.78, 4511.99, and 4513.01 to 4513.37 of the Revised Code, or while obeying the directions of a police officer or a traffic control device, in any of the following places: (1) On a sidewalk, except as provided in division (B) of this section; (2) In front of a public or private driveway; (3) Within an intersection; (4) **Within ten feet of a fire hydrant;** ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481/20 "2014-10-18T14:25:46Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > My son’s car was hit by a fire truck on its way to a fire. My son was legally parked. The fire truck cut the corner too closely and the fire department is going to fix it, but it got me to wondering … > > About 6 months ago, a BMW was parked in front of a fire hydrant when a fire broke out across the street. The FD smashed his windows to thread the hose through the car. Does the BMW owner get to fix his own windows as well as the $120 ticket? > > I live on a street where the road is about 28 feet wide. It’s residential and in the burbs, so few use it for parking. Yesterday, two construction vehicles were parked on both sides of the street. If a fire truck had to get through, it would have no choice but to side-swipe at least one of the vehicles. What happens in cases such as this? State sovereignty law is different, in Ohio it would fall under the Political Subdivision Tort Liability Act and of course, ruling case law. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-fire-trucks-cause-an-accident/701481.md?page=2)