# What happens if I live on a town/county/state/international border? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479 "2007-09-25T20:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/21 "2007-09-25T23:45:29Z")
This is probably as good a place as any to post a link to my pictures of the [Peace Arch Park](http://www.flickr.com/photos/terminusest/sets/72157601924735703/) on the US-Canadian border. While in the park, one can simply cross the border without having to go through border control. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/22 "2007-09-25T23:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Santa Clara and San Jose “share” one of the most lucrative shopping malls around: Valley Fair. They have worked out some sort of tax treaty as to who pays what, etc. [/QUOTE] I’d bet that they replated it with an invisible common wall. And have divided taxes up from the businesses that way. Shared parking lots and interior spaces are probably some sort of GCE (general common element, probably spit 50/50) makes for an interesting problem for both spatial and tabular database design for collecting taxes. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/23 "2007-09-26T00:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] One of my five year old daughter’s best friends is having to deal with this situation. [sub]The family lives down the street from us and has always has always had the same town as an address as we do. When they went to enroll their son in kindergarten, they found out that although their mailbox is in our town, most of their house is in the next town over. This is a problem because there are vast differences in demographics and school district quality between the two. [/sub]They sought legal council and found out that previous owners sued for their kids to attend the town of their address and lost. They didn’t know this when they bought the house unfortunately. [/QUOTE] That’s to bad. But make sure you have them check with the assessors office to see what school district they are being taxed for. (the legal council should have already done this, but you never know). They may still be being taxed for the physical address of the mailbox. It happens. They may still be in the wrong taxing district and being charged for the other district. Talk to the assessors office. (my Wife works for the assessor, I make the maps and assign addresses). In the case you stated there might be two addresses for the house. A physical and a mailing. If your county has a GIS system, look at it and see how the town boundaries lay. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/24 "2007-09-26T01:19:14Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Santa Clara and San Jose “share” one of the most lucrative shopping malls around: Valley Fair. They have worked out some sort of tax treaty as to who pays what, etc. [/QUOTE] Some years ago here in St. Louis, a suburban department store expanded so that its lower level actually stretched into another suburb. It was decided that the towns would collect taxes based on which cash register the sale was rung on. That worked okay until town A decided to enact a municipal sales tax while town B didn’t. Before everyone started dragging their purchases across the store to save 1/2%, it was decided that some departments would pay the local slaes tax, and other departments wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/25 "2007-09-26T01:52:15Z")
Hmmm. According to my Thomas guide, The actual Valley Fair Mall is in San Jose. It shows Santa Clara bounded by Stevens Creek Boulevard to the south and Winchester Blvd to the east, up to Newhall. That gives the covered mall building and adjoining parking lots to San Jose, as well as Santana Row on the south side of Stevens Creek. Santa Clara’s “share” would be that big strip mall on the other side of Winchester. I don’t really think of that as “Valley Fair”, even if it’s part of the same development. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/26 "2007-09-26T05:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] It may be an urban legend, but I recall reading that the Belgium/Netherlands situation, taxes are assed against you based on the location front door of your house. And that people occasionaly move the door to get a lower tax rate. [/QUOTE] Not an UL. Those Baarle houses straddling the border usually have two front doors: one in current use and one boarded up but ready to be put back in use at the drop, or rather, rise of a tax assessment. Ditto for shops. As the first link given by **Terminus Est** says > [@](#): > > As each house is deemed to pay taxes in the country where its front door is located, it is an old tradition in Baarle to move the front door some meters if that is profitable for the taxes, especially for shops. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/27 "2007-09-26T05:08:17Z")
On the other hand, a building that was there before the tax boundaries were established might present a problem. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/28 "2007-09-26T05:27:14Z")
Would I really need government permission to build a hous out in the sticks? I’m thinking, say, a house in both northern Montana and southern Alberta, assuming I own the land on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/29 "2007-09-26T05:43:21Z")
The company for which I currently work has a factory in Switzerland and one in France which are separated by a Customs Post. If you don’t know better, you wonder why the heck is there a wall through the middle of the factory, with a red-and-white bar and some sort of cops in two different uniforms at the gate. They are, legally, two separate locations. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/30 "2007-09-26T06:19:30Z")
[QUOTE=yabob] Hmmm. According to my Thomas guide, The actual Valley Fair Mall is in San Jose. It shows Santa Clara bounded by Stevens Creek Boulevard to the south and Winchester Blvd to the east, up to Newhall. That gives the covered mall building and adjoining parking lots to San Jose, as well as Santana Row on the south side of Stevens Creek. Santa Clara’s “share” would be that big strip mall on the other side of Winchester. I don’t really think of that as “Valley Fair”, even if it’s part of the same development. [/QUOTE] From the Mall’s website: > **[Westfield Valley Fair | San Jose mall](https://www.westfield.com/en/united-states/valleyfair)** > > Shop at Westfield Valley Fair in San Jose—discover top fashion brands, enjoy dining, and experience Silicon Valley’s premier shopping center. \*2855 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 2178 Santa Clara CA 95050-6709 \* From wiki:[Westfield Valley Fair - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westfield_Valley_Fair) _Valley Fair and Westfield Shoppingtown Valley Fair is an upscale shopping mall owned by The Westfield Group, located at the corner of Winchester and Stevens Creek Boulevards, straddling the border of Santa Clara and San Jose, California, United States…Valley Fair Mall is unique in that it replaced two separate 1950s era shopping centers. The original Valley Fair Shopping Center, opened in 1956, was confined to the eastern side of the property in San Jose. It was developed and anchored by Macy’s and included roughly 40 other stores in an outdoor plaza. At the western side was another outdoor shopping center, Stevens Creek Plaza in Santa Clara. It was anchored by The Emporium and I. Magnin. For that reason, the current mall contributes sales tax revenues to both the cities of San Jose and Santa Clara._ [http://www.svcn.com/archives/almadenresident/20070831/news3.shtml](http://www.svcn.com/archives/almadenresident/20070831/news3.shtml) _At Valley Fair, sales taxes are divided between San Jose and Santa Clara._ ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/31 "2007-09-26T06:56:40Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] There is a hotel in Tahoe that straddles the California/Nevada border. There is a line painted down the middle along the State line. All of the slot machines are on the Nevada side. [/QUOTE] There’s the Stateline Casino on the Nevada/Utah border that slightly overhangs onto the Utah side. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/32 "2007-09-26T13:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] Would I really need government permission to build a hous out in the sticks? I’m thinking, say, a house in both northern Montana and southern Alberta, assuming I own the land on both sides. [/QUOTE] I looks like for those counties that don’t have a building department, the state steps in. > [@Montana State Gov](#): > > The Building Standards Program, in accordance with Title 50, Chapter 60, and Title 50, Chapter 74, MCA, establishes and enforces minimum building (including accessibility), plumbing, mechanical, electrical, energy, elevator, and boiler codes. I assume this would require permits and inspections. For sure it looks like an electrical permit is required. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/33 "2007-09-26T15:18:21Z")
A grocery store here in Richmond straddles the boundary between the City of Richmond and Henrico County. The City only collectes real estate taxes (not sales taxes) because the cash registers are physically located at the other end of the building in the County. The lodge/casino people are speaking of is the CalNeva Lodge, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/34 "2007-09-26T15:44:59Z")
Random replies: > [@Randy Seltzer](#): > > Most of the legal questions in such a situation will, I imagine, be resolved by looking at your mailing address. This isn’t always the case. I have a mailing address for one city in one county, but my house is actually physically located in another city/another county. (The larger urban area straddles the city/county line.) I pay taxes to the city/county where the property sits and I get services from them as well, except for fire protection and mail. > [@Terminus Est](#): > > The Haskell Free Library and Opera House straddles the international border. How beautiful! This is definitely on my list of places to visit. > [@T\_SQUARE](#): > > Would I really need government permission to build a hous out in the sticks? I’m thinking, say, a house in both northern Montana and southern Alberta, assuming I own the land on both sides. I can’t say for Alberta, but I just called the Lincoln, Montana, planning office (why not?) and they said for unincorporated (not in a town) unsubdivided Lincoln County, you do not need a building permit for a personal residence, though you will need a septic permit and an electric permit if you want septic and electricity. And Mary Lou says “hi.” ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/35 "2007-09-26T16:38:43Z")
There was a situation here in Utah within the last year or so, where a developer built a subdivision straddling the line between two counties. The streets and property lines were laid out with no regard to the boundary, with the result that many homeowners (unknowingly) bought property that was partly in one county and partly in the other. Who was asleep at the approval office, I don’t know, but there were lots of meetings and lawsuits to try to resolve the issues of who paid property taxes to which county, and what schools kids would attend, etc. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/36 "2007-09-26T19:43:59Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] The company for which I currently work has a factory in Switzerland and one in France which are separated by a Customs Post. If you don’t know better, you wonder why the heck is there a wall through the middle of the factory, with a red-and-white bar and some sort of cops in two different uniforms at the gate. They are, legally, two separate locations. [/QUOTE] Will those guys be out of a job when Switzerland gets around to implementing the Schengen Agreement? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/37 "2007-09-26T19:59:40Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] The company for which I currently work has a factory in Switzerland and one in France which are separated by a Customs Post. If you don’t know better, you wonder why the heck is there a wall through the middle of the factory, with a red-and-white bar and some sort of cops in two different uniforms at the gate. They are, legally, two separate locations. [/QUOTE] Basle airport has a similar setup in the departure lounge. Although entirely within France, there’s an agreement that part of it is accessed from Switzerland without customs restrictions. It also has multiple airport codes, with miraculous invisible connections between the two. Searching Expedia for routes to BSL turns up this: > [@](#): > > Paris (CDG) Depart 16:10 > Terminal 2D to Basel (BSL) Arrive 17:18 > Duration: 1hr 8min > AF Air France Flight: 3286 > > Basel (BSL) Depart 17:19 > to Mulhouse (MLH) Arrive 17:20 > Duration: 0hr 1mi MLH is the code for the French part of the airport, so this is treated as an internal French flight. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/38 "2007-09-26T20:08:23Z")
[Here’s a Google Map](http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.764874,-75.747149&spn=0.005039,0.011137&t=h&z=17&om=1) of an interesting area on the DE/PA state line. I don’t know how accurate Google’s border depiction is, but it certainly looks like some of these houses are divided by the state line. It looks like the line goes right through the middle of one of the houses on Okie Drive, and a but further NE there’s a house on Delpa Drive with a big swimming pool in Delaware, while the house itself seems to have been built in a weird shape to stay in Pennsylvania! The [topo map](http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.7664&lon=-75.74723&size=l&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG25) is a bit out of date but seems to agree on the state line location. Scroll up and right a bit on the Google Map until you can see [Radburn Lane](http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&t=h&om=1&ll=39.770993,-75.741699&spn=0.005038,0.011137&z=17) - it’s a tiny dead-end street but seems to be half-and-half in two states. Also, I remember reading about the [Pheasant Lane Mall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_Lane_Mall) in Nashua NH, hard against the MA state line. On Google Maps you can see the [JC Penney](http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=nashua+nh&ie=UTF8&ll=42.699946,-71.437172&spn=0.002409,0.005568&t=h&z=18&om=1) store (with the grey roof) is missing it’s southernmost corner, in order to keep it inside New Hampshire! (You can see that Google’s state line disagrees though.) On a smaller level, I live very close to the junction of three counties, Hampshire, Berkshire and Surrey. (They join at a big road junction a couple of miles from my house.) Until quite recently, the postal address for my whole town was in Surrey, because the nearest “post town” is in Surrey, so the address was My Town, Post Town, Surrey. A few years ago, my town was upgraded to a post town, so it is now just My Town, Hampshire. But that had no bearing on which county we pay taxes to, which has always been Hampshire. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/39 "2007-09-26T20:18:34Z")
To late to edit: Incidentally, my local [DIY store](http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Sandhurst,+Berkshire&ie=UTF8&ll=51.333648,-0.770642&spn=0.002259,0.005568&t=h&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1) is, according to [large-scale maps](http://i23.tinypic.com/son2o3.jpg), right on the county boundary, about 2/3 in Surrey and 1/3 in Berkshire (the boundary used to follow a stream, which is now piped under the car park). I don’t know who they pay their taxes etc to. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479/40 "2007-09-27T04:08:55Z")
Sorta hijack about property borders in uncomfortable places … When we were living in Las Vegas back in the 80s my wife’s law firm took an interesting case. The city was growing rapidly and two different housing developers simultaneously bought adjacent large tracts (~15 square miles each) well out in the desert beyond the edge of town. The area surveys dated from the late 1800s and the two tracts had been surveyed about 20 years apart. Once they got title & permits they went out to survey with modern tools to begin grading for construction. That’s when they discovered their parcels which looked adjacent on the plat maps actually overlapped along their 3 mile common border. The overlap was about 10 feet at one end of the border and about 150 yards at the other. These guys could have split the difference or something else reasonable, but no, they hated each other’s guts and each wanted 100% of the overlapping land. And as the sayng goes in Real Estate, God’s not making any more of it. So it was a sure bet somebody was gonna walk away unhappy. Many millions in legal fees later, and after 6 years of interest spent on bunches of idle capital, while bare ungraded dirt sat where entire housing tracts should have been built, an appellate Judge finally banged his gavel & in the manner of Solomon … split the difference. Human folly knows no bounds, and some fat cats are a lot dumber than you’d expect. Oh well; it kept me in nice Scotch & fast cars all those years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-i-live-on-a-town-county-state-international-border/420479.md?page=3)