# What happens if Obama dies tomorrow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 26, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987 "2012-10-26T23:59:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/21 "2012-10-27T05:06:44Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > This comes from the idea of the United States as being a collection of sovereign states; and the electoral college is made up of delegates chosen by those states “in a manner proscribed by law” for the purpose choosing the president. Arrrgh! “prescribed”, the word is “prescribed”. That word you used means the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/22 "2012-10-27T05:16:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On a related issue, what happens if an elector dies between Election Day and the day when the Electoral College meets? I assume a replacement elector is designated. By whom? And under what legal authority? I was just looking at this earlier today for some reason. The [1845 law](http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llsl/005/0700/07590721.tif) establishing Election Day as the Tuesday after the first Monday in November also says that “each State may by law provide for the filling of any vacancy or vacancies that may occur in its college of electors when such college meets to give its electoral vote”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/23 "2012-10-27T06:54:14Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > I was just looking at this earlier today for some reason. > > The [1845 law](http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llsl/005/0700/07590721.tif) establishing Election Day as the Tuesday after the first Monday in November also says that “each State may by law provide for the filling of any vacancy or vacancies that may occur in its college of electors when such college meets to give its electoral vote”. Your link is flawed. So you have the name of the law? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/24 "2012-10-27T07:01:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On a related issue, what happens if an elector dies between Election Day and the day when the Electoral College meets? I assume a replacement elector is designated. By whom? And under what legal authority? In Ohio, the remaining electors [elect a new elector](http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3505.39): > [@](#): > > If at twelve noon at the place selected by the secretary of state presidential electors equal in number to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the state may at the time be entitled in the congress of the United States, are not present, the presidential electors present shall immediately proceed, in the presence of the governor and secretary of state, to appoint by ballot such number of persons to serve as presidential electors so that the number of duly elected presidential electors present at such time and place plus the presidential electors so appointed shall be equal in number to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the state is at that time entitled in the congress of the United States ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/25 "2012-10-27T07:16:52Z")
I don’t think the party line part matters. You’re voting for two people: Obama and Biden. If one of them dies, I think it’s still reasonable to think you’re still voting for the other person. That person would then have the right to appoint a VP. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/26 "2012-10-27T07:35:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Your link is flawed. So you have the name of the law? No, there’s no name given, just “Statute II”. The link should be fine. It’s possible that your browser don’t know how to handle the image file type, though (don’t know why LOC chose that format). You can try right clicking the link and clicking “Save As”. The Photo Viewer built into Windows can open it. Alternately, I think the QuickTime plugin can handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/27 "2012-10-27T08:14:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Your link is flawed. So you have the name of the law? His link works fine, your browser just can’t handle [TIFFs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Image_File_Format). I used [ImageMagick](http://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php) to convert it to a [PNG](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics) and [uploaded it here.](http://imgur.com/82EUC) If your browser can’t handle PNGs, move out of the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/28 "2012-10-27T09:33:09Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > His link works fine, your browser just can’t handle [TIFFs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Image_File_Format). > > I used [ImageMagick](http://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php) to convert it to a [PNG](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics) and [uploaded it here.](http://imgur.com/82EUC) If your browser can’t handle PNGs, move out of the 1990s. Let me get this straight. My browser has trouble handling TIFF files - a format that hasn’t been updated since 1992 - and you’re suggesting the problem is my _browser_ is out of date? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/29 "2012-10-27T09:35:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let me get this straight. My browser has trouble handling TIFF files - a format that hasn’t been updated since 1992 - and you’re suggesting the problem is my _browser_ is out of date? No, I suggested that if your browser had trouble handling PNGs, which Internet Explorer 4.0b1 was (to some extent) capable of, your browser was out-of-date. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/30 "2012-10-27T13:28:38Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This is one of the scenarios where having an Electoral College helps the country by allowing us to legally gloss over problems that might otherwise result in a Constitutional crisis. The electors, being allowed to vote for whoever they want, are allowed to act like humans at least to the extent of _not_ voting for the dead guy. > > … Well, in the Horace Greeley case, three of them DID vote for Greeley, even though he was dead. Their votes were disallowed. BTW, Greeley isn’t quite analogous - he died after the election, and before the Electoral College met. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/31 "2012-10-27T13:51:02Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > President Biden, most likely for the next 4 years. If he beats Romney in the election. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/32 "2012-10-27T14:08:22Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > A strange thought struck me at two o’clock this morning: Imagine that the President gets eaten by a crocodile tomorrow. What happens this close to the election? I’d vote for the crocodile. He had good taste. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/33 "2012-10-27T14:17:21Z")
Also, if it played out like Greeley, but with Obama’s electors having the majority, it could be a real mess. Only about 1/3 of Greeley’s electors voted for his running mate. Most of them voted for Thomas Hendricks, who wasn’t even seeking the office (he was a prominent Democrat running for Governor of Indiana - the Democrats had backed Liberal Republican Greeley’s nomination that year). Possibly, knowing they didn’t have a majority anyway, they felt free to make a symbolic gesture that wouldn’t matter. However, if we had a situation like this with a majority of electors pledged to a dead candidate, and they scattered their votes, it could easily result in the other candidate getting a plurality, and throw the election to the house. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/34 "2012-10-27T14:43:37Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yes. The cutoff is that you have to be acting president for more than two years of your predecessor’s term… Nitpick: President, not Acting President. Per the 25th Amendment, Sec. 1: “In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.” In _Then Everything Changed_, a series of American political what-ifs, Jeff Greenfield supposes that Richard Pavlick succeeded in killing JFK with a car bomb in December 1960, between election day and the meeting of the Electoral College. LBJ, as Vice President-elect, becomes President under the 20th Amendment, Sec. 3: “If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President.” > **[Richard Paul Pavlick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Paul_Pavlick)** > > Richard Paul Pavlick (February 13, 1887 – November 11, 1975) was a retired postal worker from New Hampshire who stalked Senator and U.S. president-elect John F. Kennedy, with the intent of assassinating him. On December 11, 1960, in Palm Beach, Florida, Pavlick positioned himself to carry out the assassination by blowing up Kennedy and himself with dynamite, but delayed the attempt because Kennedy was with his wife Jacqueline and their two young children. > He was arrested before he was able Pavli... ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/35 "2012-10-27T14:44:30Z")
There’s a novel in which this exact scenario plays out. I read it several years ago. The President-elect is riding a horse during a photo-shoot and both fall off a cliff. Many of the electors don’t want the Vice-President elect. I can’t remember the title or the author, which is a shame because it was a really good book. It’s fairly recent, I believe it was written during the 1990’s. Can anybody help? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/36 "2012-10-27T14:47:47Z")
I think that might be another Jeff Greenfield novel, _The People’s Choice_: [http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Choice-Novel-Jeff-Greenfield/dp/0452277051/ref=sr\_1\_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351349218&sr=1-4&keywords=jeff+greenfield](http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Choice-Novel-Jeff-Greenfield/dp/0452277051/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351349218&sr=1-4&keywords=jeff+greenfield) ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/37 "2012-10-27T15:07:52Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think that might be another Jeff Greenfield novel, _The People’s Choice_: [http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Choice-Novel-Jeff-Greenfield/dp/0452277051/ref=sr\_1\_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351349218&sr=1-4&keywords=jeff+greenfield](http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Choice-Novel-Jeff-Greenfield/dp/0452277051/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351349218&sr=1-4&keywords=jeff+greenfield) Yes, that’s it. Thanks, Elendil’s Heir. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/38 "2012-10-27T15:28:19Z")
The electors vote for a president and vice-president. IIRC some states, the electors are bound by law to vote for their expressed candidate. Not sure how that law working in the event of the presidential candidate’s death. It all depends on party loyalty, too. In a moment of tragedy, I suspect the instinct to “pull together” would override any dissent or desire to start playing politics. Nobody wants to come across as playing petty politics in a time of tragedy. If the death happened far enough in advance, then there would be a lot of backroom in-fighting but publicly everyone would support the top echelon of the Deomcratic Party “doing the right thing” whatever they decide. As for voting, remember that AG Ashcroft lost his election to a dead guy. We presume that was as much the sympathy vote as a reflection on Ashcroft’s appeal… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/39 "2012-10-27T15:36:20Z")
it’s too late to change voting now. Many, many absentee ballots are already cast. There’s no reason Obama/Biden votes wouldn’t count. If they win then the normal transition of VP taking over would occur. Then a new VP appointed. I’m pretty sure dead candidates have stayed on the ballot before. Wasn’t there a Missouri Senator or House Rep that died campaigning a few years ago? I don’t have time to search right now. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987/40 "2012-10-27T15:42:34Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Also, if it played out like Greeley, but with Obama’s electors having the majority, it could be a real mess. Only about 1/3 of Greeley’s electors voted for his running mate. Most of them voted for Thomas Hendricks, who wasn’t even seeking the office (he was a prominent Democrat running for Governor of Indiana - the Democrats had backed Liberal Republican Greeley’s nomination that year). Possibly, knowing they didn’t have a majority anyway, they felt free to make a symbolic gesture that wouldn’t matter. However, if we had a situation like this with a majority of electors pledged to a dead candidate, and they scattered their votes, it could easily result in the other candidate getting a plurality, and throw the election to the house. This. In the OP’s scenario, and assuming the Obama/Biden ticket gets a majority of the EC then there would be a HUGE pressure to agree upon a presidential candidate. If even a few voted for another Democrat then Biden might not have an EC majority. The whole Presidential election would be thrown to the House, where Republicans hold a majority of the state delegations. Romney wins in that situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-obama-dies-tomorrow/638987.md?page=3)