What happens if one fails boot camp?

Off topic, but from a Canadian who has NO knowledge of these type of things.

In an all-volunteer army, by definition, you have volunteered to join and that (I think) includes boot camp. So, as a volunteer, can you just say, “I’ve had enough, I’m outta here”. I suspect not - so what are the rules? What are the penalties for breaking them?

Thanks.

In the all volunteer Army, you have still sign a contract to be in the Army. You have to work at being thrown out and can not just ask to go home. If you got an enlistment bonus, that would of course be forfeit, but IRC, that is not paid up front anyway. If you just refuse to participate they will threaten you with the equivalent of Brig time. In the end, they will TDY you out and make your life miserable for a few more weeks before you go.*

Jim

  • Of course what I am relating is based on my experiences in 1985 and the Navy. This might be different currently.

We had a guy in our flight who was a total fuck-up, AND he had an attitude. His name was Jansen. I don’t remember his first name (don’t really remember anyone’s now that I think about it).

The TI came in at mail call (if I remember, it’s after night details), after a particularly spirited day with Airman Jansen, and announced that we were no longer with Mr. Jansen’s services. From what I remember, he was booted right then and there. I think he may have opted out, but I’m not sure.

Funny thing with the AF, if you get injured or sick, you get put on medical hold – and that can last up to 8 months. Really strange.

My boot experience was in '56, so my memory is a bit hazy, but I remember there was a special company for malcontents. We referred to it as “scrounge” company as many of the guys sent there couldn’t conform to the cleanliness requirements. If your training was interupted for some reason not, under your control, such as medical problems, emergency leave, etc., you were simply transferred to a later company.
Someone earlier mentioned nonswimmers, you had to pass the swim test in the Navy, or you didn’t graduate from boot, I doubt that has changed.
I’ve never been much of a swimmer and I recall the instructor pushing me off the dive tower. The whole company was lined up, including on the ladder (stairs to landlubbers), when it was your turn you jumped off the platform into the pool, simulating the jump from a ships deck into the sea, and swam 25-30 feet to the side of the pool. When it came my turn I hesitated, the platform was probably only 10-12 feet above the water, but it looked much, much higher looking down from above. The instructor gave me a shove and I was airborne. They worked w/ me and I managed to swim the required two lengths of the pool to pass the swim test.

They lightened the Swim requirement by 1985. They creatively created a class 4 swimmer classification. If you were going into a handful of very tough to fill rates like the Nuclear program’s 3 ratings, you could not fail the swim test.

Jim

In 1989 at Fort Lost in the Woods (Leonard Wood, Missouri), recycling was common for those that couldn’t hack it. I spent a week in the hospital during basic, and they didn’t recycle me, though. I was a reservist between 11th and 12th grade, though, so maybe they figured they didn’t have time to recycle me. Hell, all I missed was bivouac and grenade throwing.

A related question, then: what are the minimum physical requirements to ENTER Basic training? Or are there any? I have to assume there’s something, otherwise overweight schlubs like myself could get in. :slight_smile:

Ha! That’s where my dad went to Basic, sometime in the late sixties.

He told me a story once about having to dig a foxhole in the middle of winter, only to be ‘attacked’ in the middle of the night. Leapt straight in, through the ice. :smiley:

He relives it…

former Army Reservist Training Officer, circa late 1980s checking in. We would indeed recycle trainees who had medical or fitness issues; they went on restricted duty or went to a PT intensive training company to get them in better shape.

We did have our fair share of attempted washouts: the trainee who tried to commit suicide by hanging themselves from a showerhead in the middle of the night (ultimately discharged as unfit), the chronic bedwetter: made to set up his bunk by the CQ’s desk, and woken every hour to make sure he had the opportunity to empty his bladder (not sure what happened with him), and the trainee who got into fights (sent to the disciplinary barracks where I had to hand him over. Those NCOs were scary).

The military will give you the chance to heal, get in shape physically or mentally, and continue with your service. If you can’t or won’t cut it, they will get rid of you for everyone’s benefit.

Is there a difference between male and female boot camp, psychologically?

I spent about two weeks in the Navy hospital after Ivyboy was born (burst appendix) and my roommate was a young girl in the middle of boot camp. I forget what was wrong with her, but she was incredibly homesick and miserable. She told me how her DI would give her a baby bottle in front of all the other recruits and other “mean” things.

Her DI and someone else came to see her, and the recruit was crying and insisting she wanted to go home; she was done. The DI and the other woman seemed very nice and sympathetic, and IIRC hinted that they would begin processing her out.

Would they really have processed her out as being mentally unable to handle the rigors of boot camp? Or would they just be shining her on until she got physically better and then dumped her back in? I would imagine it could be dangerous to have a soldier who didn’t want to be there. FWIW, this was about 17-18 years ago.

To enter Basic Training, the minimum is something like 11 push-ups, 15-20 sit-ups, and run a mile in 12 minutes. There is no minimum to enlist though. There is simply a maximum bodyfat composition (something like 22-24% for males). If you are not over that percent, you can enlist and go through MEPS and on to your receptions battalion. There, you will be tested for the minimum PT requirements to be sent “down range” to start Basic. If you dont meet them, you will be sent to a training company that will get you in shape. The Army will get you in shape if you’re trying, so the minimums are not difficult. Basic training is designed to get an out of shape couch potato into a fit soldier. They’re not expecting to enlistees to be athletes when they arrive.

I don’t doubt that they were truly sending her home. Some people just cannot adapt to military life and there are discharges and seperations available for them during initial entry training.

KarlGauss, when one volunteers to join the military he/she swears an oath and signs a contract. They agree to be bound by the UCMJ and follow orders of superiors. Like other contracts, they cannot simply renig if the other party doesn’t release them of the obligation. Ever try to return a leased car early? :wink:

There are volunteer units within the volunteer Army, though. (Such as Airborne, Rangers, Special Forces, etc). These units are completely volunteer and at any time a person can say “I want out” and they will be removed from the unit. They cannot be removed from the Army that easy though. If they de-volunteered from such a unit, they would be sent to some normal unit in accordance with the needs of the Army.

So did he get a General discharge? Honorable? I would imagine Dishonorable would be too harsh, but Honorable seems too generous (future benefit eligibility depends on the kind of discharge).

1989? Fort Leonard Wood? Delta Company, Sixth Battalion by any chance?

If he never made it through basic, it is just a separation from service. Neither Honorable nor Dishonorable discharge IRC.

Maybe things are different now, but I know of no one in the US Army in 1966 who took any such tests; no pushups, no situps, no running. We just had to pass the medical minimums, which weren’t much more than be alive & breathing; an acceptable number of limbs, fingers and toes; at least one testicle if male, vision correctable to 20/50; and no major deformities or life-threatening medical conditions like heart trouble or diabetes. (This is a gross simplification, of course.)

Oh, and we had to pass a written test that any 3rd-grader could have aced, and swear allegiance to Big Brother.

I wasn’t aware that there was any way you could leave the service without some kind of discharge: General, Honorable or Dishonorable. If this is true, what would he enter on a future employment application where it asks for military service and/or discharge status? “None”? Would he be eligible for any Veterans’ benefits?

As best as I can remember, he would not be eligible for Veterans’ Benefits, I have no clue what he would list on an employment application. I would probably avoid listing it if possible.

I have a friend who got a separation from service as his rate was not available and it was guaranteed. He chose to go home rather than stay in*. He did not list any military service time, but he was in and out as an 18 year old and a 10 week gap in employment for an 18 year old is pretty normal.

Jim

  • This might not be 100% factual, I am now passing on what he told me. I do not know anyone else that got out for this reason, I am not sure if this is how it really works, but he was an honest guy and I am still friends with him 20 years later. Take it for what it is worth.

As I understand the situation, it’s just like ** What Exit?** says. My loser brother-in-law washed out of Navy Boot Camp in the the late '70s. He just wasn’t able to adjust to military life – specifically taking orders. He’s still one of those people who regularly quits jobs because “they are bossing [him] around.” Anyway, he was removed from his Boot Camp class and sent to a holding unit of some kind for a couple of weeks until they got him processed out, then he was sent home. I believe the specific term is an Entry-Level Discharge or Separation. He was told that he didn’t have to include the discharge on job applications – it was just like he’d never enlisted. No VA benefits, either. The only difference between him and person who’d never enlisted at all is that his record was flagged so that he could not enlist later, in the Navy or any other service, even if he changed his mind and wanted to.

Yea, things must be different now. Was there even a reception battalion back in those days? I think the bus just went straight to Basic Training. There, the Drill Sergeants got on the bus and starting yelling immediately at a bunch of civilians in street clothes.
Nowadays, the bus from your hometown will drop you off at the reception battalion. There you are inprocessed, given your uniforms, re-evaluated by medical personnel, given more forms to fill out, you get your financial and family stuff sqaured away, you get your haircut and start learning the bare-minimum military courtesy and such. It’s a rather laid-back environment. After 4 days of this (only 4 if you’re lucky!!), you are lined up to be handed over to your drill sergeants.
The drill sergeants go to the reception battalion to pick up their new company of fresh recruits. They will do a lay-out of all equipment and uniforms to ensure that nobody has lost something in the last half week, and that everyone has been given everything. Then, the soldiers are either marched to their new barracks, or they are put on a bus. Either way, when they arrive at their new barracks be it by foot or by bus, the stress and screaming begins!

Part of that 4 day inprocessing is a physical test. They dont actually care about your maximum though. For instance, everyone is lined up for push-ups. Once you bust out 11, you get up and the next person steps up. They dont care if you can do 100 at that point. You do 11, get a GO and move on. I’m positive the push-up minimum is 11. I am guessing about the exact standard for running and sit-ups though. But I can’t be too far off. I’m sure it’s listed in AR 350-6 if anyone wants to look for it.
Within the first week or so of actual Basic, you will take a diagnostic PT test to see exactly what your maximum performance is and where you stand.

You need to be on active duty for some minimum amount of time to get Vet’s Benefits. I don’t recall the exact amount of time but it’s more than the time spent in Basic. Benefits are not an issue here.