# What happens if someone has no doccuments at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775 "2014-11-05T17:20:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/41 "2014-11-06T22:37:46Z")
But yes, if you came by airplane the simple solution would be to stuff you on an airplane and send you back where you came from. But if you have no documents, how does the originating country know you’re allowed to be there? Just because you came on a plane from Canada doesn’t mean you have a right to be in Canada. Why should Canada be obliged to take you? If you’re sent back to Canada that just means that now Canada has to find a place to deport you to. And this is why, if you buy a ticket on an international flight, they check your documentation to make sure you have the right to enter the destination country. If you don’t, they don’t let you on the plane. That way this whole mess can be avoided. If an airline lets someone on a plane to the US who doesn’t have the right to enter the US, the US government will send the bill for deportation costs to the airline who didn’t check the traveler’s documents. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/42 "2014-11-06T23:16:14Z")
You cannot deport a person without giving them an opportunity to file an asylum claim is they wish. If they do have a valid asylum claim, you cannot deport them to a place that is unsafe. If that person does not have a valid asylum claim (and I’m assuming our paperless person does not), then they can be deported to any old country that will take them, but it’s not really considered best practice to move people to third countries without their consent. The reason why you can’t just dump them in a third country without the consent of that country is, of course, that that third country is going to be pissed. Do it often enough, and you’ll start getting a lot of nastygrams from the UN and human rights organizations, which will end up being more of a hassle to deal with than just finding an acceptable arrangement. Countries-- even quite developed ones–try to dodge these rules all the time. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/43 "2014-11-06T23:27:59Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But yes, if you came by airplane the simple solution would be to stuff you on an airplane and send you back where you came from. But if you have no documents, how does the originating country know you’re allowed to be there? Just because you came on a plane from Canada doesn’t mean you have a right to be in Canada. Why should Canada be obliged to take you? If you’re sent back to Canada that just means that now Canada has to find a place to deport you to. > > And this is why, if you buy a ticket on an international flight, they check your documentation to make sure you have the right to enter the destination country. If you don’t, they don’t let you on the plane. That way this whole mess can be avoided. > > If an airline lets someone on a plane to the US who doesn’t have the right to enter the US, the US government will send the bill for deportation costs to the airline who didn’t check the traveler’s documents. Pretty much the same here in the UK. That’s why the long queue at immigration in Heathrow. If you walk off the plane and claim that you are a victim of persecution in your own country, you are not stateless and may or may not be allowed to stay. If you walk off with no documents, you would be sent right back to whence you came at the airline’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/44 "2014-11-07T00:03:59Z")
Considering that even in CRBA cases the US embassy demands the child and parents appear for visual inspection (AKA does it look like this child is logically a result of these two people) in addition to documents tells me that if you are Han Chinese and don’t speak a word of English and claim your parents are two black people from Chicago where you were born and raised, problems will arise. EDIT:You and your story will have to make sense, or all the affidavits signed by US citizens won’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/45 "2014-11-07T02:39:28Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Yeah, this does seem a bit odd, but thought provoking. If two anchor babies grow up in the US, get married, and have a kid in the US, does the kid inherit the status of anchor baby? Is that status inherited from generation to generation down the decades or centuries or does it eventually dissipate? This isn’t really critical at the moment since anchor babies are guaranteed US citizenship, but it could become relevant if that changes. > > How many generations would have to go by for the family to become real Americans? Think about it this way - what would you think if an irregularity in your ancestors’ immigration documents could jeopardize _your_ citizenship? Say you’re running for office, and your opponent starts digging into your ancestors’ immigration records and starts “illegalizing” them by pointing out irregularities and getting their visas retroactively canceled. > > “Aha! Your great-great-grandpa Hans Schmidt stated to the immigration officer at Ellis Island that he was born in Berlin, but he was actually born in Dusseldorf to parents born in Berlin and only moved to Berlin at age 5. Falsification of documents means void visa, therefore illegal immigrant! Now, his wife Brunhilda Schmidt nee Schneider was also illegal because she concealed that she was caught stealing bread at age 13 and received a warning from police. Concealment of criminal record, immigration admission voided! Also, it looks like she signed the visa application form as “Brunhild Schmit”, so her application wasn’t even valid. Stupid half-illiterate German girls \. So their son, George Schmidt, was an anchor baby! George would later marry an immigrant, let’s look at her, that Highlander Maude Elspeth McRae - she didn’t reveal during the immigration medical exam that she had had pink eye a month before. Illegal immigrant! So _their_ son was the son of an anchor baby and an illegal immigrant and therefore was an anchor baby too! Look at all these illegal immigrants! I just need a few more and _you’ll_ be an anchor baby. Anchor baby! Ha! Start packing!” > > Of course, that is ridiculous. But where do you draw the line? Good question, though both sides of my family have been here since before there was a US of A … so someone in my family had to sign off on yours 😃 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/46 "2014-11-07T06:21:11Z")
Yeah, I don’t know about your experience, but any time I’ve flown in Canada or the USA, the first step checking in is not just presenting, but scanning your travel documents. So - even if you then shred and flush your documents during the flight, the airline and immigration will have sufficient data to return you back to where you boarded the flight. What they do at your loading point (i.e. Syrian refugee flying from France to USA, sent back to France) is the first country’s problem. I guess we have to clarify - what does the OP ask? Do you mean someone showing up at a port of entry without documents for entry or to return to origin? Is the plan to cooperate or obfuscate? Are you trying to get ID or trying to stay anonymous? Do you mean someone born and raised locally but totally “off the grid”? Again, is the goal to get documented or to try and remain undocumented? Not sure about the USA, but in Canada the vast majority of employers (from what I’ve seen) use a service that pays by direct deposit. To open a bank account, you must have a Social Insurance Number. To work, you need one. To drive, you need a drivers’ license. To pay for a car, you need a credit rating or a lot of cash. To deposit more than $10,000 cash, if that’s how you buy your car, you need ID. Children must register and attend school from 5 to 16. Flying or checking into a hotel usually requires ID. Landlords usually want ID. Most people have a home address. You will have friends and acquaintances if not family. Even the story of the farrier shows that decades ago, it was difficult to stay off the grid, and the difficulty factor has increased tremendously. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/47 "2014-11-07T12:56:40Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Some potential situations: > > 1. To what extent will a country extradite someone to a country that they do not recognize? For example, will Pakistan or Saudi Arabia deport someone to Israel, or will the immigration judge cover his ears and shout, “Never heard of the place, doesn’t exist!” repeatedly? This scenario is exceedingly unlikely to arise, since neither Pakistan nor Saudi Arabia would allow an Israeli citizen to enter the country in the first place. (Well, unless perhaps that person had dual citizenship and used their other passport, but in that case they’d just be deported to that other country.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/48 "2014-11-07T13:28:33Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > May I ask where are you from, that you assume a fingerprint registry for babies? Spain only fingerprints babies who need a passport, which certainly isn’t most of them. Not _finger_prints, but in South Africa and elsewhere, all babies have their footprints taken for ID purposes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/49 "2014-11-07T13:33:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > May I ask where are you from, that you assume a fingerprint registry for babies? Spain only fingerprints babies who need a passport, which certainly isn’t most of them. Not _finger_prints, but in South Africa and elsewhere, all newborns have their _foot_prints taken for ID purposes. And here, there have been lots of people with no ID, often older people from the various former independent homelands. Generally they just need to provide a sworn affidavit that they are who they say they are, e.g when applying for an ID. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/50 "2014-11-07T17:04:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Do you even know what diplomatic immunity is? Hint: you only get diplomatic immunity if you’re a member of a diplomatic mission. You are correct. I got diplomatic immunity confused with political asylum. I needed sleep. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/51 "2014-11-07T19:47:46Z")
Consider a few cases: Ariel Castro kidnapped 3 girls, including Amanda Berry. At the time of their rescue, Amanda had a 7-year-old daughter who had been born at the house; presumably the birth was never registered, Castro took the girl to see his mother and other family members describing her as his “girlfriend’s daughter” and she called him daddy, but apparently there were never any hints of Family Services or the School board asking questions. I saw no reports of the child going to school. I assume taking the child to school would require producing paperwork that did not exist - birth certificates, listing parents, etc. But… at 7 years old, the difficult times with documentation were still years off. The same applies to Jaycee Dugard - her two daughters were born in captivity at the house, apparently never registered. Again, they don’t seem to have gone to school from what I read, and nobody seems to have noticed or asked questions (except for a neighbour who complained that Garrido, a registered sex offender, had two children living with him - but nothing happened). nobody seems to have noticed the children were not in school; however, he was caught when a University security officer got suspicious about the odd situation of the school-age children accompanying him. Again, the children were about 14 and 12, so they did not need ID documents yet, but sooner or later documents would be an issue. The same applies with Fritzl in Austria; two of his children by his daughter were “left on his doorstep” with a note from their mother saying she had left them in the grandparent’s care. In a country where we imagine things are a bit more controlled than North America, the authorities seem to have twice accepted children that appeared from nowhere, mother not locatable and no trace of her, no record of the children being born, and nobody seems to have found this suspicious enough to dig further. My conclusion - children are easily overlooked by authorities and it’s possible to go for quite a few years without appropriate documentation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775.md?page=2)