# What happens if the "Birthers" uncovered proof. Who would become president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344 "2013-08-15T20:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/1 "2013-08-15T20:04:12Z")
Hypothetically, suppose that tomorrow a videotape were to surface, showing Barrack Obama’s mother giving birth to him somewhere in Kenya, and 50 eyewitnesses who have remained silent all this time were to show up and confirm it. Furthermore, members of the Hawiian birth registry were to come forward and openly admit to fraudulently modifying public records. Who would become president? Would the presidency go to Joe Biden? Would the election be ruled invalid, and would an interim president take over until new elections could be held? How would that interim president be chosen? Would the Obama administration’s legions of lawyers be able to delay a decision being made until the end of Obama’s term of office? Would it be shown that since Obama and the democratic party could not have known that the records had been tampered with, therefore he acted in “good faith” in becoming a presidential candidate, and therefore the election was valid? (conversely, suppose someone told him that the records had been tampered with, but he only had their word for it and no definite proof?) Under what possibly scenario could Mitt Romney be awarded the presidency? Would his term of office start retroactively last January or when he took office… Obviously, there’s a lot of ways it could go, I’m curious as to what the most likely scenario would be and why. My suspicion is that it would not result in the “Birthers” desired outcome of a Republican president immediately taking power. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/2 "2013-08-15T20:10:27Z")
The only realistic scenario in such an eventuality is a swift impeachment followed by the inauguration of Joe Biden. There is no mechanism in the Constitution which allows a presidency to retroactively be nullified. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/3 "2013-08-15T20:10:30Z")
It would probably go through impeachment proceedings. If Obama was convicted, Biden would become president. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/4 "2013-08-15T20:20:30Z")
Is being shown to be ineligible for office after the fact even grounds for impeachment? What would the charges be in a such a case? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/5 "2013-08-15T20:37:03Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Is being shown to be ineligible for office after the fact even grounds for impeachment? What would the charges be in a such a case? Fraud. It’s the House that gets to decide if that is grounds for impeachment. If they decide it is so, the Senate gets to decide if the President should be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/6 "2013-08-15T20:38:04Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Is being shown to be ineligible for office after the fact even grounds for impeachment? What would the charges be in a such a case? Impeachment doesn’t need a charge; whatever Congress decides is an impeachable offense is an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/7 "2013-08-15T20:47:02Z")
Agreed w/everybody. > [@](#): > > Under what possibly scenario could Mitt Romney be awarded the presidency? None. If Biden doesn’t become President (because he knew, say), then the Speaker of the House is next up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/8 "2013-08-15T20:49:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Fraud. Fraud by whom? Are you impeaching Stanley Ann Dunham? Obviously, Barack Obama wasn’t involved in the initial fraud and you have no evidence he was even aware of it after the fact. He was probably told and sincerely believed he was born in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/9 "2013-08-15T20:53:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The only realistic scenario in such an eventuality is a swift impeachment followed by the inauguration of Joe Biden. I think another realistic scenario is that Obama resigns, and Biden becomes president. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/10 "2013-08-15T20:56:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Fraud by whom? Are you impeaching Stanley Ann Dunham? Obviously, Barack Obama wasn’t involved in the initial fraud and you have no evidence he was even aware of it after the fact. He was probably told and sincerely believed he was born in Hawaii. Assuming that this scenario were true, then he would have had to have found out _at some point_ that the birth certificates he was releasing to the public weren’t genuine. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/11 "2013-08-15T20:57:54Z")
The only way Biden would not become president if Obama was impeached and removed from office is they also impeached Biden. In which case the speaker of the house becomes president, John Boehner. Under no circumstances would Romney become president. Wait, here’s how. Boehner resigns, the house elects Romney speaker (the speaker apparently doesn’t have to be a member of the house, although every actual speaker has been). Then they impeach Obama and Biden, who are removed from office by the Senate. There you go. The constitution states: > [@](#): > > The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President…The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed… So Obama would still be the president, despite not meeting the eligibility criteria, because he was chosen by the Electoral college. He would not automatically be removed from office, he would have to be impeached. His presidency would not be retroactively invalidated. It would be up to Congress to decide what to do. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/12 "2013-08-15T20:58:02Z")
Probably depends to some extent on when it happens as well. Too late into the second term, Congress might just decide to let it pass so Biden doesn’t get to run as an incumbent. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/13 "2013-08-15T20:58:06Z")
But presumably it does have to be an offense. Suppose that local government in Hawaii made a mistake, and somehow recorded him being born there when he was not. When the matter came up for scrutiny, they fraudently “fixed” the records If Obama were completely unaware of this action (or it couldn’t be proved he was aware…), then what case for impeachment is there? ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/14 "2013-08-15T21:02:36Z")
Essentially, there’s no likely scenario where the Birther’s get what they want. Amusingly, if Stanley Ann Dunham DID fess up to the crime, Obama can just pardon her… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/15 "2013-08-15T21:03:00Z")
Considering that a few years ago, we had a film depicting an autopsy allegedly performed on an alien shown on national TV, I’d expect the first step to be a massive effort to authenticate or dis-authenticate the video. Given Obama’s age, his birth being recorded on videotape would be the first big clue that maybe the tape was…less than authentic. That said, if there were some magical means of absolutely proving he is ineligible, he either resigns or is impeeched, and Biden takes over. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/16 "2013-08-15T21:06:20Z")
About the 10,000th thread on this, but what the hell…might as well chime in with a ‘me too!’: > [@](#): > > Would the presidency go to Joe Biden? Yes. If he’s unfit then it goes to the Speaker of the House…then on [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession) way down the list. > [@](#): > > 1 Vice President of the United States Joe Biden (D) > 2 Speaker of the House John Boehner (R) > 3 President pro tempore of the Senate Patrick Leahy (D) > 4 Secretary of State John Kerry (D) > 5 Secretary of the Treasury Jacob Lew (D) > 6 Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel (R) > 7 Attorney General Eric Holder (D) > — Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell (D)[a] > 8 Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack (D) > 9 Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker (D) > 10 Secretary of Labor Thomas Perez (D) > 11 Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius (D) > 12 Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Shaun Donovan (D) > 13 Secretary of Transportation Anthony Foxx (D) > 14 Secretary of Energy Ernest Moniz (D) > 15 Secretary of Education Arne Duncan (D) > 16 Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki (I) > 17 Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano (D) > > ``` > ^ Naturalized US citizen born in the United Kingdom. > > ``` > [@](#): > > Would the election be ruled invalid, and would an interim president take over until new elections could be held? How would that interim president be chosen? No, there is no need for anything like this and it wouldn’t happen. There is already a formalized succession in place. See above. If the Pres and VP are deemed unfit, then Speaker of the House is next up. And so on. > [@](#): > > Would the Obama administration’s legions of lawyers be able to delay a decision being made until the end of Obama’s term of office? Depends. It would be up to the Congress if they decided to impeach him and how long that would last. Even with 100% irrefutable proof I doubt it would be quick, so yeah, he’s probably make it to the end of his term before it got ironed out. Understand, it’s complete horseshit (or maybe the wet dream of Conservatives and Republicans), so it’s merely an academic exercise. > [@](#): > > Under what possibly scenario could Mitt Romney be awarded the presidency? Would his term of office start retroactively last January or when he took office… The only thing I can think of that would allow Romney to be president (besides the obvious if he’d won the election) is if he’d stayed governor and if enough people in the succession list died he might eventually be the next up, if I’m remembering how the succession goes after all on the first tier list die off. Other than that, there is zero way he’d be ‘awarded the presidency’. None. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/17 "2013-08-15T21:06:41Z")
Didn’t Congress already declare him a citizen once? Or am I imagining that? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/18 "2013-08-15T21:14:57Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Didn’t Congress already declare him a citizen once? Or am I imagining that? You’re thinking of John McCain, congress passed a bill that declared him a natural born citizen even though he was born in Panama. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/19 "2013-08-15T22:22:36Z")
Wait, what? Why can’t Congress just declare that Arnold Schwarzenegger is considered an natural born citizen because of the “all-American” nature of his movie star roles… ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344/20 "2013-08-15T22:26:32Z")
We could legally annex Arnold’s birthplace and then retroactively grant him birthright citizenship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-birthers-uncovered-proof-who-would-become-president/666344.md?page=2)