# What Happens if the Queen Commits a Crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999 "2006-05-16T16:51:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/41 "2006-05-17T14:45:24Z")
\*\* Tappi\*\*, that’s why I was trying to find my old post, which goes into this in more detail. Mechanisms evolved to allow suits against HM in her private capacity which got around the lack of jurisdiction. One was a fiat granted by the Crown in a particular case, giving the Courts jurisidiction to sue her. Another method was to allow the Attorney General to represent her. There have also been statutory amendments to allow actions in respect of her private estates, where she appoints representatives to represent her in the action. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/42 "2006-05-17T15:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > That sounds alot like a governor couldn’t be prosecuted, as leader of a state. Not quite: in legal terms (as opposed to practical terms, as pointed out above), the Queen _is_ the state, and all authority in Britain quite literally comes from her. I know that sounds awfully archaic and all, but in this case Louis XVI’s “L’estat, c’est moi.” is actually true. Of course, a constitutional framework has built up around the monarchy to effectively prevent it from exercising any power, but in strictly legal terms, the Queen could do anything she wants, becuase the laws are only maintained at her pleasure, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/43 "2006-05-17T15:58:16Z")
Then it’s a good thing she’s so, er [del]boring[/del] phlegmatic and public minded. I wonder what _would_ happen if they mixed up the mushrooms at a State dinner and she went around, pointing at people and saying, “off with 'er 'ead!” This beats watching or reading about W’s latest, so please fill me in. Would she be granted a decree of killing? (or would she be quietly put away and Charles in charge from that day on?). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/44 "2006-05-17T16:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > This beats watching or reading about W’s latest, so please fill me in. Would she be granted a decree of killing? (or would she be quietly put away and Charles in charge from that day on?). Once again, speaking in purely technical (and therefore divorced-from-real-world) terms: decree of killing. I believe (OK, this is IIRC), that the Queen has the authority to create any law she desires, including one saying “This guy here dies now”. Based on the furore that started the civil law, tax law may be exempt- but remember, without a written constitution, us Brits really don’t have a mechanism for interacting with our governments other than convention and some statute law (both of which the Queen can ignore if she likes). In real terms, of course, the Queen would be quietly put somewhere else and Charles installed as Regent (based on what happened in the 1800’s, when George III went bonkers.) But there is nothing in the law to prevent her establishing a neo-feudal court system (IIRC, IMO, IANAL, take it or leave it et al). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/45 "2006-05-17T17:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] Criminal prosecution in US states are done on behalf of The People or The State, not the governor. [/QUOTE] Or by the Commonwealth (in Virginia, Massachusetts, Kentucky and Pennsylvania). In the Federal system, of course, prosecutions are brought in the name of the United States, which during the Watergate crisis led to the remarkable case of _United States v. Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States_. For more on the Princess Royal’s dog-related legal problems, see: > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Princess Royal fined over dog attack](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2497531.stm)** > > Princess Anne is fined £500 and ordered to pay £500 compensation after admitting that one of her dogs attacked two children. I suspect that, if the Queen committed a serious offense, Parliament would present her with an Act of Abdication which, under longstanding practice, she would be obliged to sign. No British monarch has vetoed anything since Queen Anne in 1708. Blackstone suggested that the Sovereign must give the Royal Assent even to an Act requiring her or his execution. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/46 "2006-05-17T17:49:09Z")
Allowing that a Queen who was sufficiently deranged to commit a crime would also be sufficiently deranged to prevent Royal Assent, AFAIK the Parliament could simply name someone else monarch, something they’ve already done a couple of times. For example, the Bill of Rights 1689 is enacted by “the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, pursuant to their respective letters and elections, being now assembled in a full and free representative of this nation…”, not by the monarch, appropriately as the monarch, James II/VII, had abdicated and the bill provided for William and Mary to assume the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/47 "2006-05-17T18:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Mind you, I am not impugning the Queen in any way. She doesn’t strike me as the criminal type. 😛 [/QUOTE] Have you never seen her driving one of her Bentleys. She really does drive it like she stole it. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/48 "2006-05-17T19:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Have you never seen her driving one of her Bentleys. She really does drive it like she stole it. [/QUOTE] And when Phillip calls ‘Shotgun’ he really means it. I hear drive-by grouse hunts are a real plague in the area surrounding Balmoral. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/49 "2006-05-17T20:58:34Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Have you never seen her driving one of her Bentleys. She really does drive it like she stole it. [/QUOTE] I know that Bentley’s are fine cars and all, but they don’t strike me as “jump in and jam the pedal to the metal” type cars. The Queen is a reckless driver? Who knew? This has been very educational–just who would be the one to “put the Queen away”? Tony Blair? A Lord of the Upper House? Keeper of the Abdication Robes? Now, what if Charles is the guilty one? What happens then? We skip him and go straight to Wills? (many of you wouldn’t mind that a bit, apparently). And despite my taking English history in college, I was never clear on the whole William and Mary thing, so thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/50 "2006-05-17T21:54:25Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I know that Bentley’s are fine cars and all, but they don’t strike me as “jump in and jam the pedal to the metal” type cars. [/quote] Ever seen a [Bentley Continental GT](http://www.segura-inc.com/segura2/desiner%20profiles/carlos/favorite%20cars-htm/BentleyConGT.htm)? [Quote=eleanorigby] The Queen is a reckless driver? Who knew? [/quote] Princess Anne is the reckless driver in the family, she’s been in court a couple of times for excessive speed. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > This has been very educational–just who would be the one to “put the Queen away”? Tony Blair? A Lord of the Upper House? Keeper of the Abdication Robes? Probably the [Lord Chancellor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Chancellor), he’s one of five people who can appoint a Regent if he feels the monarch is no longer capable (the others are: Sovereign’s spouse, the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and the Master of the Rolls). > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Now, what if Charles is the guilty one? What happens then? We skip him and go straight to Wills? (many of you wouldn’t mind that a bit, apparently). And despite my taking English history in college, I was never clear on the whole William and Mary thing, so thank you. Charles could be tried in Court. It’s likely then that his position as Heir Apparent would be removed and William would take his place. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/51 "2006-05-17T21:59:27Z")
The Queen’s driving is mostly a security precaution. Having lived in Windsor, I got plenty of chances to encounter them driving down the ‘Long Walk’ to and from Church on Sundays. Thye like to drive themselves rather than be driven, and they tend to drive quite fast mostly I think to avoid paparazzi, but security must also be an issue. Also don’t knock Bentleys, they are very fast cars, often supplied with full armour. > [@](#): > > [New Bentley for the Queen! Golden Jubilee News](http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/windsor2002/jubilee/statebentley.html) > Powering the Bentley State Limousine is a modified version of Bentley’s new 400bhp, twin-turbo 6.75-litre V8 engine that will make its debut in the recently launched Bentley Arnage R, and, with 616lb ft/ 835 Nm of torque, endowing the State Limousine with an impressive turn of speed right up to its electronically limited top speed of 120mph (193km/h). Modifications have been made to the air boxes to allow them to be fitted under the bonnet, while a larger alternator is fitted to cope with the added demands of the electrical system. Capable of running on liquid petroleum gas (LPG) will not only extend the range of the car but will also dramatically reduce its output of emissions. > The engine drives a standard four speed GM 4L80-E gearbox, as found on the Arnage, which directs power through up rated driveshafts to the rear wheels. > [@](#): > > [http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A\_55340/newsarticle.html](http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_55340/newsarticle.html)] > We make armoured motor cars, not cars that have been armoured,’ says Trevor Gay, sales manager of Bentley Mulliner. > Bentley Mulliner armoured limousines are engineered to the very high ‘B6’ or VR6 world standard. This dictates that the car offers ballistic protection when fired on by a NATO 7.62mm self-loading rifle or Kalashnikov AK47. It also offers blast protection from two DM51 hand grenades detonating simultaneously above the roof, and the same grenades detonating simultaneously 150mm below the floor. James Bond eat your heart out 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/52 "2006-05-17T22:04:53Z")
just to mention that in Canada, if you want to sue the government you have sue the queen and use the terms “Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada” in your claim as the defendent. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/53 "2006-05-17T23:42:44Z")
Here is a [link](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/21/1037697812188.html) to an article about Princess Anne becoming the only current royal with a record, due her dog biting two kids in a park in 2002. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/54 "2006-05-17T23:52:37Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] . . . appropriately as the monarch, James II/VII, had abdicated and the bill provided for William and Mary to assume the throne. [/QUOTE] It’s probably better to say he had “been declared abdicated”, so to speak. James never voluntarily abdicated and never recognized the Convention Parliament or the Declaration of Right. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/55 "2006-05-18T00:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] The Queen’s driving is mostly a security precaution. Having lived in Windsor, I got plenty of chances to encounter them driving down the ‘Long Walk’ to and from Church on Sundays. Thye like to drive themselves rather than be driven, and they tend to drive quite fast mostly I think to avoid paparazzi, but security must also be an issue. Also don’t knock Bentleys, they are very fast cars, often supplied with full armour. [/QUOTE] Okay, so not even is she the theoretical font of all justice, from whom the laws emanate, but even if she does hit something, her car is armoured, so that she wouldn’t be harmed anyways? 🙂 In Canada, land that had not been assigned to a private owner is known as Crown Land, because, legally, it “belongs to” the monarch of Canada. At least I think that’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/56 "2006-05-18T00:18:41Z")
I’ve only ever seen the regal, sedate and sedan (saloon car?) Bentleys. Now I have \*another \* luxury item to lust after–thanks ever so much. :rolleyes: 🙂 The Bentley could be my second car–with the Jaguar being for special occasions and the Mini for every day. If only I could make that so. So, if Chuck decided to go completely off the rails, there is no way [del]the Rotweiler[/del] Camilla would ever rule, right? She is not even to be called Queen, if I remember correctly? But would she be the Queen Mum to Billy and Hank? And if Bill proves to be in with his Dad on the life o’ crime, then Hank gets a shot, but if HE is also a playuh, then it’s Andy’s turn at bat… Much more interesting than our power line up. (sorry, but I love to play with their names-humor me). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/57 "2006-05-18T00:25:59Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Of course, a constitutional framework has built up around the monarchy to effectively prevent it from exercising any power, but in strictly legal terms, the Queen could do anything she wants, becuase the laws are only maintained at her pleasure, and so forth. > … > I believe (OK, this is IIRC), that the Queen has the authority to create any law she desires, including one saying “This guy here dies now”. Based on the furore that started the civil law, tax law may be exempt- but remember, without a written constitution, us Brits really don’t have a mechanism for interacting with our governments other than convention and some statute law (both of which the Queen can ignore if she likes). Have to disagree with you on these points. Her Majesty does not have any legislative power, except in relation to some prerogatives that do not apply within the United Kingdom. This point was established as far back as 1611, when the judges held that King James I could not enact laws by proclamations. > [@The Oxford Companion to Law](#): > > **Proclamations, Case of** (1611), 12 Co. Rep. 74. King James I raised the question whether he could be proclamation prohibit new buildings in and about London and the making of starch of wheat. The Chief Justices and Chief Baron held that the King by proclamation or otherwise could not change common law, or statute, or the customs of the realm, that the King by proclamation could not create any offence which was not an offence before, and had no prerogative but what the law of the land allowed him. And no, the laws are not maintained simply at her pleasure. Laws are not passed by the Queen, but by the Queen-in-Parliament - that is, the House of Commons, the House of Lords, and the Queen, acting collectively to legislate. She cannot repeal a law unilaterally, anymore than the House of Commons or the House of Lords could do so. And the Bill of Rights, cited by **matt\_mcl** , abolished any power that the Crown may have had to suspend the operation of the laws. And as for the idea that the Queen could just point her finger and say “This guy here dies now” - NO! What do you think the barons were doing when they forced John to agree to [Magna Carta](http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html)? One of their goals was to prevent just this type of arbitrary royal conduct > [@Magna Carta](#): > > (39) No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land. > > (40) To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice. Chapters 39 and 40 are the foundations of English justice and are still in force today, through subsequent re-issues of Magna Carta by John’s successors. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/58 "2006-05-18T00:32:28Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > > [@eleanorigby](#): > > > > Now, what if Charles is the guilty one? What happens then? We skip him and go straight to Wills? (many of you wouldn’t mind that a bit, apparently). And despite my taking English history in college, I was never clear on the whole William and Mary thing, so thank you. > > Charles could be tried in Court. It’s likely then that his position as Heir Apparent would be removed and William would take his place. I agree that the English courts would have jurisdiction over Charles. The courts don’t have jurisdiction over Her Majesty because they are her courts, but that doesn’t give Charles any immunity. However, even if he were convicted of an offence, it’s not that easy to change the succession. The [Statute of Westminster](http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/StatuteofWestminster.html) provides that > [@](#): > > any alteration in the law touching the Succession to the Throne or the Royal Style and Titles shall hereafter require the assent as well of the Parliaments of **all the Dominions** as of the Parliament of the United Kingdom: So you’d have to get all the Commonwealth realms to agree to the change in the succession - not any easy task, given the number of realms that have the Queen as their head of state. More likely, Parliament would pass some amendments to the Regency Act to limit the convicted felon’s ability to exercise his royal powers in the U.K. and delegate them to someone else. That type of Act would not require the involvement of the other Commonwealth realms, isince it would not touch the Succession. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/59 "2006-05-18T01:28:54Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] I agree that the English courts would have jurisdiction over Charles. The courts don’t have jurisdiction over Her Majesty because they are her courts, but that doesn’t give Charles any immunity. However, even if he were convicted of an offence, it’s not that easy to change the succession. The [Statute of Westminster](http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/StatuteofWestminster.html) provides that So you’d have to get all the Commonwealth realms to agree to the change in the succession - not any easy task, given the number of realms that have the Queen as their head of state. More likely, Parliament would pass some amendments to the Regency Act to limit the convicted felon’s ability to exercise his royal powers in the U.K. and delegate them to someone else. That type of Act would not require the involvement of the other Commonwealth realms, isince it would not touch the Succession. [/QUOTE] My impression is, that if one of the Commonwealth Realms changed the succession, the new succession would be in effect only for that Realm. The previous succession would remain in effect for the other Realms by default. So if Canada wanted to change the succession, it could do so without consulting the governments of the other Realms, just the Sovereign. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999/60 "2006-05-18T02:20:21Z")
I did find it funny that the court was charging Anne’s husband with the dog bite offense, until she showed up in court and confessed! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-the-queen-commits-a-crime/356999.md?page=4)