# What happens if Trump is indicted in Georgia? (Indicted on August 14, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 17, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928 "2023-02-17T03:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1201 "2023-08-29T03:13:57Z")
Or maybe it goes like this: > **[Utah man charged in Capitol insurrection to be evaluated for mental...](https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/05/06/utah-man-charged-capital/)** > > A Utah man charged for allegedly attacking officers at the Jan. 6 capitol riots might be evaluated for mental competency after he swore and screamed during a court hearing Thursday. (Ad walled) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1202 "2023-08-29T03:19:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > IANAL so I do not know why defendants are required to be present. It is a major defence against secret trials. Courts are open so the Public can assess the proceedings. The accused is required to be present to hear all of the prosecution’s case and give instructions to their own lawyers. It’s not just a matter of slipping a note now and then. Defence counsel are to take instructions from their client, not make all the decisions for their client. And, you don’t want the accused to argue on appeal that they weren’t aware of what was going on in the courtroom and would have given different instructions if their lawyer had properly advised them of what was happening. As the DC judge said today, when a person is charged and on trial, the court has first priority on the accused’s presence. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1203 "2023-08-29T03:31:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > To which Trump will undoubtedly pay heed. Trump is so stingy he won’t even pay _attention_ to his lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1204 "2023-08-29T09:43:13Z")
Or Trump doesn’t show much, gets the guilty verdict, then whines and asks for a mistrial because he couldn’t be there on since he was campaigning and asking him to do so is election interference. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1205 "2023-08-29T10:42:04Z")
Mr. Trump, let us just suppose that a first-term President, let’s call him “Joe Biden” just for fun, does openly and blatantly attempt to overturn his re-election results, which he clearly and indisputably has lost by a very large margin, but is turned out of office, after which he is tried by his successor’s DoJ. This hypothetical “Joe Biden” announces his candidacy for the upcoming Presidential election, and claims that any attempt to prosecute him for anything is “election interference,” so all such attempts should be quashed since every date proposed for his trial by definition interferes with something on his campaign schedule. How much credibility should we allow this Joe Biden in making such an argument? Sir? Hello? Is this thing on? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1206 "2023-08-29T13:09:54Z")
I believe civil is optional, but criminal is not. Trump must be there for the entirety of the ga, dc, fl, and ny trials. He does not have to attend the Carroll civil trial. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1207 "2023-08-29T13:12:43Z")
Moderating: Let’s please stop discussing January 6th matters in the Georgia prosecution thread. Whether an appearance is mandatory depends on the state and the venue, so I understand how the discussion spun off, but we’ve gotten much more into a discussion of matters happening before Judge Chutkan in the election subversion case than on matters to do with hearings in Georgia. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1208 "2023-08-29T13:34:03Z")
Ray smith has waived arraignment and entered a non guilty plea. > **[First Fulton County defendant pleads not guilty in Georgia 2020 election...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/politics/ray-smith-arraignment-waived-fulton-county-case/index.html)** > > Ray Smith, one of the 19 defendants in the election interference case in Fulton County, Georgia, has waived his arraignment and entered a plea of not guilty, according to a new court filing. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1209 "2023-08-29T14:36:03Z")
From the above linked CNN article: > It’s not clear whether Trump or the co-defendants will appear in person for the arraignment. The court often allows arraignments via Zoom, or defendants can waive their arraignment appearances if the judge allows. It is also unclear at this point if cameras will be allowed in the courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1210 "2023-08-29T14:41:19Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > The way I see it is that Meadows is arguing that insuring fair and honest elections is a legitimate duty for a public servant in the Executive Branch. All he was doing was facilitating Trump in this endeavor. If it was truly part of Meadows’s responsibility within the government to ensure fair and honest elections, he should be able to provide evidence of all the other elections he sought to intervene in. Failing that, he should be able to show that he evaluated all the other 2020 elections, up and down the ballot, in every state, and found them to be fair, with only the Georgia presidential election requiring his attention. To the lawyer types, do arguments like that work in court? I suppose it’s a form of proof by contradiction. Can you convince a judge or jury with that sort of reasoning, or is it too indirect to be persuasive? In this case, it might also open the door for Meadows to say “I tried to overturn the elections in Wisconsin and Arizona, too”. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1211 "2023-08-29T16:09:56Z")
In his motion to dismiss, Meadows argues that he was engaged in First Amendment protected political speech (which would be a violation of the Hatch Act), while in his motion to move the case to Federal Court, he argues that he was acting fully in his (non-political) capacity as Chief of Staff. Seems he’s trying to have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1212 "2023-08-29T19:29:43Z")
2 more have waived arraignment and have plead not guilty. The judge stated he needed more information from both sides by Thursday. Possible ruling on Friday in the mark meadows issue. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1213 "2023-08-29T19:54:06Z")
I thought up thread it was mentioned that Meadows would testify again today? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1214 "2023-08-29T20:37:42Z")
It appears they did it all in one day, with meadows on the stand for 5 ish hours. The judge just put out a thing that I am trying to find the exact wording. It is that if one part of the charges is in the scope of meadows’ duties would that one act alone be enough to swing it into federal court. Willis is pushing to keep her trial together and is asking that a trial date be for all 19. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1215 "2023-08-29T21:27:06Z")
[Here is a PDF of the order](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.319225/gov.uscourts.gand.319225.63.0_2.pdf). Text below (I did not check for errors in the text file). > ORDER > Having held an evidentiary hearing in the above-captioned matter, the > Court deems it proper to request limited additional briefing on the following > issue: > > Count 1 of the Indictment (pertaining to Georgia’s > Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act > (RICO), O.C.G.A. § 16-14-4(c)) contains a number of > overt acts attributed to Mr. Meadows. Would a finding > that at least one (but not all) of the overt acts charged > occurred under the color of Meadows’s office, be > sufficient for federal removal of a criminal prosecution > under 28 U.S.C. § 1442(a)(1)? > > The Parties shall file supplemental briefing by 5:00 p.m., Thursday, August 31, 2023. I am no lawyer, and a lot of this stuff goes over my head. But, I am confused on the Judge’s question. Isn’t the Judge the one who should answer that, based on established law? To me, it would seem irrelevant if any of the overt acts occurred under the color of Meadows’ office, as the overt acts are not necessarily illegal and those acts are not what he (or the other defendants) are being tried. They are just to show a conspiracy among the defendants to overturn the results of the Georgia Election. But, like I said, I don’t know law from Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1216 "2023-08-29T21:32:46Z")
I believe the sticking point is that there isn’t anything established about this whole trump mess. Meadows is the canary in the coal mine for this case. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1217 "2023-08-29T22:10:47Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I am no lawyer, and a lot of this stuff goes over my head. But, I am confused on the Judge’s question. Isn’t the Judge the one who should answer that, based on established law? I"m also not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the judge is asking prosecution and defense to give their best arguments on the question at hand, but the judge will still be the one to issue the ruling. Doing it this way means that the judge will (or at least, should) hear the strongest arguments from each side, which makes it less likely to miss something that will result in overturning on appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1218 "2023-08-30T00:17:56Z")
Exactly. A judge wants to be briefed by both counsel on any significant legal issue. It’s partly a clash of ideas: you expect both counsel to put forward their best arguments on the issue, and that will help you make your decision. It also eliminates a due process argument on appeal: the judge alerted them that this was a significant issue, and gave both sides the same time to submit briefs on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1219 "2023-08-30T01:36:18Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Willis is pushing to keep her trial together and is asking that a trial date be for all 19. Yes, the Atlanta DA now seeks, if I have this right, an October 23, 2023 start for everyone. But even if that’s the date, a big if, Georgia trials can take a long time. This next is an extreme example, but the Trump case is also extraordinarily complex in terms of number of counts and defendants: [YSL RICO trial: July marks 6 months since jury selection began](https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/young-slime-life-ysl-rico-trial-six-months-fulton-county) > [@](#): > > Despite all the little hiccups that we’ve seen, Rafus says the court hopes to have jury selection wrapped up soon with the trial starting in September. I know [this is from](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/us/politics/trump-prosecutors-strategy.html) an attorney trying the case in the press, but he is competent: > [@](#): > > “To [Willis], being a self-appointed expert in RICO, everything looks like a RICO case, and that’s the problem,” Mr. Silverglate added. “She could have brought a very simple case and has instead brought this monstrosity.” > > Mr. Smith’s approach was “simpler and it’s easier for a jury to understand, and it takes less time,” he said. “Do you know what it’s like to be a juror sitting for 18 to 24 months? Do you know how it disrupts their lives? It’s not going to be a representative jury because you’ll have nobody on the jury who has a job.” . ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1220 "2023-08-30T14:57:12Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > To me, it would seem irrelevant if any of the overt acts occurred under the color of Meadows’ office, as the overt acts are not necessarily illegal and those acts are not what he (or the other defendants) are being tried. They are just to show a conspiracy among the defendants to overturn the results of the Georgia Election. That’s a fair argument. In civil cases, when they get removed from state to federal court, state claims go with the federal claims (usually) under what’s called pendant jurisdiction. There may be little precedent on criminal removal, especially for overt acts that are part of a criminal conspiracy charged under state law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928.md?page=62)