# What happens regarding supposed tests/drills for violent crime response with random bystanders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583 "2010-10-18T18:57:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/1 "2010-10-18T18:57:57Z")
Occasionally, I’ve heard tell of instances where tests/drills of emergency response practices for crime are done in instances where there are unaware/innocent bystanders. E.g. a bank, in collaboration with local police, might agree to “stage” a mock holdup during regular business hours to test how well the bank employees follow standard procedures and policies and how quickly police can arrive. 1. Does this actually happen? 2. What happens if one of those customers or bystanders decides to take drastic action and “fight” back, which in their mind might be personally reasonable? E.g. if a customer has a gun and decides to open fire on the apparently well-armed “robbers” or “terrorists” and kills one, only to later find out it was all a drill and the actors were using blanks? I’m more interested in practical effects as well as civil liability, I’m less interested in whether or not the innocent person is going to face criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/2 "2010-10-18T22:01:56Z")
I’m very doubtful that it would ever happen, for your reason among others (eg. a customer freaking out and having a fatal heart attack). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/3 "2010-10-18T22:14:29Z")
> [@robert\_andrews](#): > > Occasionally, I’ve heard tell of instances where tests/drills of emergency response practices for crime are done in instances where there are unaware/innocent bystanders. E.g. a bank, in collaboration with local police, might agree to “stage” a mock holdup during regular business hours to test how well the bank employees follow standard procedures and policies and how quickly police can arrive. > > 1. Does this actually happen? > > 2. What happens if one of those customers or bystanders decides to take drastic action and “fight” back, which in their mind might be personally reasonable? E.g. if a customer has a gun and decides to open fire on the apparently well-armed “robbers” or “terrorists” and kills one, only to later find out it was all a drill and the actors were using blanks? I’m more interested in practical effects as well as civil liability, I’m less interested in whether or not the innocent person is going to face criminal charges. If I’m a bank’s attorney, I turn in my resignation before I let them pull this stunt. Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/4 "2010-10-18T22:45:08Z")
A police officer once killed a Green Beret and wounded another one because he didn’t know there was an exercise going on: > **[United States Army Special Forces selection and training](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Special_Forces_selection_and_training#Death_during_ROBIN_SAGE)** > > The Special Forces Qualification Course (SFQC) or, informally, the Q Course is the initial formal training program for entry into the United States Army Special Forces. Phase I of the Q Course is Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS). Getting "Selected" at SFAS will enable a candidate to continue to the next of the four phases. If a candidate successfully completes all phases they will graduate as a Special Forces qualified soldier and then, generally, be assigned to a 12-men Operatio... ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/5 "2010-10-19T01:02:24Z")
This happened in Melbourne, in 1983. ASIS agents held a [mock hostage rescue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Secret_Intelligence_Service#The_Sheraton_Hotel_incident) at the Sheraton Hotel, apparently without telling anyone. No one was seriously injured but it was quite a scandal at the time, especially since ASIS was virtually unheard of before then. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-regarding-supposed-tests-drills-for-violent-crime-response-with-random-bystanders/557583/6 "2010-10-19T22:14:43Z")
Can’t speak to other regions, but here on Long Island, when we have an emergency services drill, they illicit volunteers from various local civic groups including CERT, to play the ‘victims’/‘bystanders’. I know they’ve done a few at the local airport, and I can’t imagine there weren’t signs up saying ‘drill in progress’ or some such. Local media were also present.