# What happens to people borne stateless?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-borne-stateless/790794>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [July 8, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-borne-stateless/790794 "2017-07-08T22:00:31Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 15

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**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-borne-stateless/790794/15 "2017-07-09T12:12:45Z")

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This question has come up before. I addressed a related question a few months ago …

> [@What would happen if you tried to legally marry somebody with no identification or proof of birth?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-tried-to-legally-marry-somebody-with-no-identification-or-proof-of-birth/781185/39):
>
> This problem affects many hundreds of thousands of “hill people” in Thailand. Several groups (incl. Akha, Karen, Lahu, Lisu, Hmong, Yao) have no identity cards and consequently cannot get passports, house registrations, drivers’ licenses; they cannot legally get married, open a bank account, get a formal job, or even attend public school; they are subject to arrest any time they venture out from their “hills.”
> 
> These are not all “illegal aliens”: most were born in Thailand; their ancestors may have lived in Thailand for many generations. One told me what obtaining an identity card would cost; I don’t remember exactly but it was very expensive by Thai standards, perhaps $3000 for a “fake” ID, or $25,000 for a “real” ID. (I’ve no idea what the difference is between the “fake” and “real” ID card — perhaps how high-placed the bribed official is?)

… and now see I’d addressed another related question two and a half years before that!

> [@What happens if someone has no doccuments at all?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-someone-has-no-doccuments-at-all/703775/23):
>
> In Thailand there are about a million people _born in Thailand_ who lack national ID cards. In some cases this is due to poor record-keeping or records lost in the tsunami, but there are also many “hill people” (ethnic groups like Akha, Karen, Lisu, Hmong, etc.) who are deliberately denied ID even though they’ve lived in Thailand for generations. (Some have special ID cards just to acknowledge they lack national ID.) These hill people are ineligible for all government services and risk arrest just to travel. To obtain national ID card would cost them two year’s wages or so – difficult _since they can’t work legally_.
> 
> As a different anecdote, I once worked with a high-ranking Silicon Valley engineer, ethnic Chinese, with U.S. government security clearance. He suddenly lost his citizenship (and clearance!), as did many of his relatives. Turned out his alleged grandfather was just some guy who needed some extra exemptions on Form 1040!

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