# What happens to people who cannot get health insurance? (U.S. obviously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 29, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392 "2008-01-29T01:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/21 "2008-01-29T09:48:34Z")
I usually just lurk, but this hits a nerve, pun intended. The raw horror of what happens if you’re uninsured is amazing. I’m still being chased for medical bills incurred a decade ago, for the aftermath of a near-fatal car accident. Luckily, my disability came through after a year and a half of legal wrangling by an attorney who specializes in such cases, and took a mere 25% of my benefits for the service. Being crippled sucks; being homeless sucks; I got to experience both at once. So, I’d say, “you’re fucked” is a very good description of what happens. Now, I get to survive on less than the official poverty level for as long as I want. (An aside- Medicare is actually pretty good for most things). Keeping cheerful isn’t easy, though the SDMB helps a lot 🙂 Perhaps that wasn’t so much an answer, as a rant. My apologies to the OP. I can get emotional about it. Maybe because if I’d gotten treatment immediately, instead of waiting years, the damage might well not have been permanent. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/22 "2008-01-29T10:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] It’s not how they roll under the NHS in England, where preventive care is unknown. I asked about a mammogram while I was living there (I’m at that age) and I was asked “Why, do you feel a lump?” My spousal unit had never had his PSA levels done (he was at the right age) and when I got him to ask about it the doctor affected to not know what a PSA level was. He’d also never had a routine chest x-ray - not once in his entire life! [/QUOTE] Not in my experience - the NHS has a wide range of preventative programs - including [Breast Cancer Screening](http://www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk/breastscreen/). However, the program has to be cost effective - I know that PSA level tests are not generally considered a good diagnostic tool or value for money (I asked). This [site](http://www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk/prostate/index.html) explains why. Cervical cancer checks are regular and very good, and they are looking to be offering scans for aortic aneurysm this year. My wife and I got free flu shots before winter, and have missed some nasty bugs going round. So there is a very good range of preventative healthcare going on in the NHS. Si ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/23 "2008-01-29T10:39:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] It’s not how they roll under the NHS in England, where preventive care is unknown. [/quote] Simply bollocks. > [@Sprockets](#): > > I asked about a mammogram while I was living there (I’m at that age) and I was asked “Why, do you feel a lump?” Funny, we have a national screening programme for breast and cervical cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/24 "2008-01-29T11:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] He’d also never had a routine chest x-ray - not once in his entire life! [/QUOTE] Ok, I’ll bite on this one. Why would one have a chest x-ray routinely, and what problems would you find with it? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/25 "2008-01-29T12:09:58Z")
I keep hearing we have the best system in the world, if you have enough money I guess it’s true. Just as an example my medical coverage at work has almost tripled in cost in the past four years. The monthly premium for medical coverage is now $346.00, that’s $4152.00 per year. This amount is only because I am in a pool with other employers, the same coverage if I were to loose my job and have to pay it myself outside the pool is $7500 per year for one person! How can anyone afford that out of pocket with a low paying job? It is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/26 "2008-01-29T12:15:21Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] Simply bollocks. [/QUOTE] Once again with the mindless hostility in response to an opinion. > [@](#): > > Funny, we have a national screening programme for breast and cervical cancer. Goody. I’m talking about my own experience, and I have no reason to lie. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/27 "2008-01-29T12:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=Aspidistra] Ok, I’ll bite on this one. Why would one have a chest x-ray routinely, and what problems would you find with it? [/QUOTE] I should also have mentioned that he had never had a chest x-ray for his several bouts of bronchitis. A routine chest x-ray - every several years - can show many things. I don’t really understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/28 "2008-01-29T12:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] Once again with the mindless hostility in response to an opinion. [/quote] What’s opinion doing in GQ? You posted a non-fact… there’s no other response. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/29 "2008-01-29T12:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=si\_blakely] I know that PSA level tests are not generally considered a good diagnostic tool or value for money (I asked). This [site](http://www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk/prostate/index.html) explains why. [/QUOTE] I can’t agree with the sentiments on that website, although I do understand that is the NHS party line. Short of digital examinations, PSA levels are the only good indicator of possible prostate cancer. I worked for a urologist in the US for many years so I do have a basis for that opniion. I regard the NHS position on this - as in so many areas - to be nothing short of brutal. > [@](#): > > So there is a very good range of preventative healthcare going on in the NHS. I believe you’ve had good experiences, but I can only relate my own experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/30 "2008-01-29T12:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] You posted a non-fact… there’s no other response. [/QUOTE] Oh for God’s sake, what’s a “fact” but someone else’s opinion? I thought we were having a discussion. Other people are posting their experiences, but I’m not allowed to post mine? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/31 "2008-01-29T12:24:45Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] Oh for God’s sake, what’s a “fact” but someone else’s opinion? I thought we were having a discussion. Other people are posting their experiences, but I’m not allowed to post mine? [/QUOTE] Not when they’re pure bollocks. “No preventative care on the NHS” is a libel against the system. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/32 "2008-01-29T12:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] Not when they’re pure bollocks. [/QUOTE] I see a lot of things on this board and elsewhere that I don’t agree with or I think are just silly, but I don’t have the urge to be abusive. And you really should learn another word. > [@](#): > > “No preventative care on the NHS” is a libel against the system. Now I’m scared. And I would never say “preventative” because the proper word is “preventive.” ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/33 "2008-01-29T12:38:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] I can’t agree with the sentiments on that website, although I do understand that is the NHS party line. Short of digital examinations, PSA levels are the only good indicator of possible prostate cancer. I worked for a urologist in the US for many years so I do have a basis for that opniion. I regard the NHS position on this - as in so many areas - to be nothing short of brutal. [/QUOTE] No, just pragmatic. [QUOTE=wikipedia] PSA is false positive-prone (7 out of 10 men in this category will still not have prostate cancer) and false negative-prone (2.5 out of 10 men with prostate cancer have no elevation in PSA). [/QUOTE] For an expensive test, the results are not looking good, whereas a digital exam costs a rubber glove, some KY and a :eek: bit of dignity (check out the Ricky Gervais prostate awareness radio ads). I know where my tax dollars would rather go - along with my doctors digit. There are differences in approach based on the surgery you attend, but on the whole, NHS doctors are pretty proactive. I even get requests to attend a cardio check if I haven’t been in for a while. Si ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/34 "2008-01-29T12:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sprockets] Now I’m scared. And I would never say “preventative” because the proper word is “preventive.” [/QUOTE] No, you just make stuff up and post it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/35 "2008-01-29T12:47:48Z")
Sorry, **Sprockets** , but your experience with the NHS does not tally with my own, either. And they don’t like to do X-rays not to save money but because excessive X-rays are unhealthy for the patient. To take another example: they’ve been red-hot on the flu vaccine for those at risk. While the NHS comes in for a lot of stick, from myself included, to say that it provides no preventive care is simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/36 "2008-01-29T12:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Sorry, **Sprockets** , but your experience with the NHS does not tally with my own, either. And they don’t like to do X-rays not to save money but because excessive X-rays are unhealthy for the patient. [/QUOTE] And I believe that you believe that, but from what I’ve read the radiation you get in a chest x-ray is equivalent to what you get in one transatlantic flight. I don’t advocate x-rays where they aren’t indicated, but they certainly are indicated in many instances. > [@](#): > > To take another example: they’ve been red-hot on the flu vaccine for those at risk. Yes, they sure have - just as they have on this side of the pond. It’s something doctors and clinics can do and be seen to be doing something, although there is a lot of debate about whether flu vaccines are really worthwhile, since they only target a few strains of the flu at best. > [@](#): > > While the NHS comes in for a lot of stick, from myself included, to say that it provides no preventive care is simply not true. Apparently everyone would have been more comfortable if I’d said “In my opinion they provide no preventive care,” or “I never experienced any preventive care while I lived there,” or “No one I’ve spoken to who lived under the NHS ever related having any preventive care to speak of,” or something like that. I really feel it should be obvious that anything anyone posts here or anywhere is just opinion. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/37 "2008-01-29T12:56:06Z")
**Moderating** **Sprockets**. You’re in General Questions. Your first post was nothing but your opinions. You’ve done nothing to back them up. Others have offered evidence to rebut your opinions. If you have something more to add other than your personal experiences, do it. **samclem** Moderating ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/38 "2008-01-29T13:00:09Z")
[QUOTE=si\_blakely] For an expensive test, the results are not looking good, whereas a digital exam costs a rubber glove, some KY and a :eek: bit of dignity. . .I know where my tax dollars would rather go - along with my doctors digit. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t thinking primarily of cost but of effectiveness and the health of the patient. Serial PSA levels are the best indicator of trouble in the prostate, and they need to be backed up by digital exams. However, digital exams only detect significant abnormalities, and it’s important to catch prostate cancer early since it’s such a nasty metastasizer. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/39 "2008-01-29T13:02:11Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] **Moderating** **Sprockets**. You’re in General Questions. Your first post was nothing but your opinions. You’ve done nothing to back them up. Others have offered evidence to rebut your opinions. If you have something more to add other than your personal experiences, do it. **samclem** Moderating [/QUOTE] You want links to other people’s opinions? What is it you require? I’m also confused about why others are giving their experiences and opinions but I’m getting the “don’t do it” message from you. Is it what I’m wearing? Am I holding my mouth wrong? ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392/40 "2008-01-29T13:35:13Z")
**Sprockets** , Wikipedia is not the best source but do you have a cite that contradicts the figures given: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by wikipedia > PSA is false positive-prone (7 out of 10 men in this category will still not have prostate cancer) and false negative-prone (2.5 out of 10 men with prostate cancer have no elevation in PSA). and to go with that do you have evidence that > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by_ **Sprockets** : > Serial PSA levels are the best indicator of trouble in the prostate … I don’t think anyone is denying your personal experience in the UK - the disagreement is with using the fact that your husband did not get a PSA test and you did not get a mamogram (as noted above the NHS definitely does have a comprehensive [screening programme](http://www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk/breastscreen/index.html) for breast cancer) to support your sweeping statement that: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by_ **Sprockets** : > It’s not how they roll under the NHS in England, where preventive care is unknown. I don’t think anyone in the UK would deny that the NHS has its problems but a complete absense of preventive care is not one of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-to-people-who-cannot-get-health-insurance-u-s-obviously/435392.md?page=3)