# What Happens When Fidel And Raul Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361 "2013-05-15T00:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/21 "2013-05-15T17:40:14Z")
Ahem. Time to paraphrase my favorite movie. There is no reason to plan for a future without Fidel. Fidel is _immortal._ He has existed from the morning of the world and he will exist until the last start falls from the night sky. Although he has adopted the form of Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz, he is all men as he is no man and is thus a God. I, at least, will mourn him when he dies, if only as the last survivor of a different time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/22 "2013-05-15T22:42:13Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > I, at least, will mourn him when he dies, if only as the last survivor of a different time. That he is . . . Kim Jong-un is no Fidel . . . **Are** there any notable leftist revolutionaries in the world any more? I mean, “revolutionaries” who are not already in charge? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/23 "2013-05-15T23:14:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I expect a pseudo market economy, like China. If the new government can implement enough reforms to get the embargo lifted, it could be a game changer in the Caribbean. I think you’re more likely to see them model themselves after Costa Rica then China. Frankly, the dropping of the economic sanctions and allowing them to start selling sugar and cigars to the US would be a massive boon to their economy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/24 "2013-05-15T23:51:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think you’re more likely to see them model themselves after Costa Rica then China. How so? > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Frankly, the dropping of the economic sanctions and allowing them to start selling sugar and cigars to the US would be a massive boon to their economy. But Florida’s sugar lobby will never allow it. Well-organized, they are. In 1996 [they defeated a proposed penny-a-pound sugar tax to fund restoration of the Everglades](http://aec.ifas.ufl.edu/agcommcase/sugar.html). And [they’re still going strong.](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/sugar-growers-win-house-vote-on-everglades-polluti/nWkZH/) And they have a [PAC in Washington](http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00012328). ---
**Author:** ![Jamie\_Gillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@Jamie\_Gillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamie_Gillis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/25 "2013-05-15T23:56:29Z")
Okay, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. How about a U.S. invasion to totally destroy any chance of a communist regime continuing in Cuba? A democratic government could be put in place with far more ease than, shall I say, Iraq. And it would make the spirits of Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Reagan very happy. GHW Bush would probably leap from his wheelchair in glee, too. I could see only President Carter as critical. (I’m not sure what President Clinton would think and I don’t care about GW Bush’s opinion - sorry.) What would be the real world and political outcomes if we invaded? I’m not advocating this. I’m just saying “what if…” P.S. I’m well aware that most of the world - except perhaps the U.K. government - would not support such a move. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/26 "2013-05-15T23:58:56Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > Okay, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. > > How about a U.S. invasion to totally destroy any chance of a communist regime continuing in Cuba? That is the one thing that would make young Cubans decide they **like** Communism. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/27 "2013-05-16T00:03:59Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > Okay, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. > > How about a U.S. invasion to totally destroy any chance of a communist regime continuing in Cuba? A democratic government could be put in place with far more ease than, shall I say, Iraq. > > \ > > What would be the real world and political outcomes if we invaded? We’d turn a enemy in name only into an _actual, implacable_ enemy. A democratic nation by nature would be our enemy after we invaded them without provocation, slaughtered their people right and left, and purged them of “communist influences”. Which by nature would mean killing off a _substantial_ portion of the population. The survivors would hate us for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/28 "2013-05-16T00:51:32Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > Okay, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. > > How about a U.S. invasion to totally destroy any chance of a communist regime continuing in Cuba? A democratic government could be put in place with far more ease than, shall I say, Iraq. > > And it would make the spirits of Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Reagan very happy. GHW Bush would probably leap from his wheelchair in glee, too. I could see only President Carter as critical. (I’m not sure what President Clinton would think and I don’t care about GW Bush’s opinion - sorry.) > > What would be the real world and political outcomes if we invaded? > > I’m not advocating this. I’m just saying “what if…” > > P.S. I’m well aware that most of the world - except perhaps the U.K. government - would not support such a move. I strongly recommend against this action, Captain. It would not be logical. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/29 "2013-05-16T01:17:12Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > I’m not advocating this. I’m just saying “what if…” So you’re “just asking questions”? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/30 "2013-05-16T02:38:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How so? Because culturally it’s far more similar culturally and has been a successful democracy for well over a hundred years and seems economically a better model than China, where something like 60% of the population lives without electricity and illiteracy is rampant. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/31 "2013-05-16T02:41:00Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Because culturally it’s far more similar culturally and has been a successful democracy for well over a hundred years and seems economically a better model than China, where something like 60% of the population lives without electricity and illiteracy is rampant. No, I mean, what **is** the economic model of Costa Rica, and how does it differ from, say, El Salvador’s or Guatemala’s or Mexico’s? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/32 "2013-05-16T02:42:05Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > P.S. I’m well aware that most of the world - except perhaps the U.K. government - would not support such a move. Why the UK government? Is neocon influence still hanging on there? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/33 "2013-05-16T03:08:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I mean, what **is** the economic model of Costa Rica, and how does it differ from, say, El Salvador’s or Guatemala’s or Mexico’s? For starters, Costa Rica has no army, so no waste of money on a big military force that is just itching for a coup. And I will assume here, but I think eco tourism could be a benefit to Cuba as it is in Costa Rica. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/34 "2013-05-16T03:51:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > For starters, Costa Rica has no army, so no waste of money on a big military force that is just itching for a coup. And I will assume here, but I think eco tourism could be a benefit to Cuba as it is in Costa Rica. I think Cuba’s future lies more in another form of tourism prefaced by a three-letter word. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/35 "2013-05-16T04:06:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why the UK government? The UK government seems to do what it’s told to do by the US government. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/36 "2013-05-16T04:27:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The UK government seems to do what it’s told to do by the US government. What, still?! ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/37 "2013-05-16T04:35:30Z")
> [@Jamie\_Gillis](#): > > Okay, I’m going to play devil’s advocate. > > How about a U.S. invasion to totally destroy any chance of a communist regime continuing in Cuba? A democratic government could be put in place with far more ease than, shall I say, Iraq. > > And it would make the spirits of Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Reagan very happy. GHW Bush would probably leap from his wheelchair in glee, too. I could see only President Carter as critical. (I’m not sure what President Clinton would think and I don’t care about GW Bush’s opinion - sorry.) > > What would be the real world and political outcomes if we invaded? > > I’m not advocating this. I’m just saying “what if…” > > P.S. I’m well aware that most of the world - except perhaps the U.K. government - would not support such a move. Didn’t JFK promise this would never happen to get the Soviets to pull the missles out of Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/38 "2013-05-16T04:37:19Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Didn’t JFK promise this would never happen to get the Soviets to pull the missles out of Cuba? No Administration is bound by a previous one’s promises unless they were embodied in a treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/39 "2013-05-16T04:52:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > For starters, Costa Rica has no army, so no waste of money on a big military force that is just itching for a coup. And I will assume here, but I think eco tourism could be a benefit to Cuba as it is in Costa Rica. Agreed. Roughly 10% of the country is set aside as national parks and they have one of the highest standard of livings if not the highest in Latin America as well as having a huge literacy rate. One of my favorite stories about Costa Rica was how under Oscar Arias,\* they decided to get the police/national guard new uniforms that looked less military so they let the children vote and the children selected light blue shirts and blue pants like the school uniforms. Frankly, considering it’s size and it’s history of tourism, I think Cuba could do quite well. Similarly, Cuba has a vastly more homogenous population than China. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361/40 "2013-05-16T06:45:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Similarly, Cuba has a vastly more homogenous population than China. Linguistically, perhaps; but it comes in more colors. A fact which has caused racial strife in Cuban society in the past. The Castro regime is generally agreed to have improved things significantly in that regard, but also to have some racism-problems of its own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-fidel-and-raul-die/658361.md?page=3)