# What happens when mideast loses it's trump card and runs out of oil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-mideast-loses-its-trump-card-and-runs-out-of-oil/164575 "2003-03-27T18:45:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-mideast-loses-its-trump-card-and-runs-out-of-oil/164575/21 "2003-04-03T05:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scotandrsn \* > **We can get the same compounds from coal deposits (and we have more of those in America than anywhere else), but coal is a lot harder to get out of the ground than oil.** Depends on how you define “harder”. Surface-mined low-sulfur coal in Wyoming is anywhere from $4.00 to $6.00 per ton FOB. Even when you throw in delivery costs you can still ship it to most anywhere in the central 2/3 of the nation, from Arizona to Mississippi to New York to Oregon for under $25 a ton. And in the Midwest/Middle US, you can get as low as $11 a ton, delivered. On a heat basis, the DoE says that the latest 2002 data (Aug 2002 compilation) was that the average cost of coal delivered to all plants in the US was 121.9 cents/MBtu. Comparing to other fuels: Natural gas: 346.6 cents/MBtu Oil: 352 cents/MBtu ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-mideast-loses-its-trump-card-and-runs-out-of-oil/164575/22 "2003-04-03T13:38:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*There is a persistent trail of research out here in soybean country that is looking into supplanting that (“soy ink” is one of the less unsuccessful products). All we really need are polymers. Plants are darn good at making polymers. Right now, plant sources aren’t as cheap as petroleum–right now. Eventually, petroleum will get to be too expensive. > > It should be noted that a lot of petroleum is used right now in raising those plants, so there will have to be quite a bit of readjustment. However, so long as there are fissionable materials and that great big fusion reactor in the sky, something can be worked out–but the general luxurious levels of the US lifestyle will probably drop in the process. > > I could deal with that, but it won’t be fun. \*\* Ah, yes, bioplastics. Of course you’re right that we could use those to make polymers–it’s a combination of research and expense at the moment. Not to mention the great big fusion reactor in the sky, but how about some nice fission reactors on the ground? I’ll never understand people who are irrationally afraid of nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-mideast-loses-its-trump-card-and-runs-out-of-oil/164575/23 "2003-04-03T13:51:37Z")
By most accounts, the Alberta Tar Sands have a larger oil reserve than Saudi Arabia, but extracting usable oil is at least twice as expensive. If the Americans are willing to pay as much as $3/gallon (comparable to what Europeans already pay), then it will become profitable to fully exploit inconvenient soucres like the Tar Sands. At that point, there’d be enough oil to last at least a few centuries. Personally, I’m hoping for controlled fusion within my lifetime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-mideast-loses-its-trump-card-and-runs-out-of-oil/164575.md?page=1)