# What happens when the pope goes senile? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433 "2003-09-29T05:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/1 "2003-09-29T05:53:20Z")
He’s not as old as the senator for West Virginia who seems fairly coherant at the ripe age of 85 but then again the senator isn’t being pushed around in a wheelchair and the pope doesn’t exactly _look_ too healthy either (to be honest!). So what happens when he goes senile? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/2 "2003-09-29T06:21:28Z")
Who says anyone has to know? I’d imagine that the higher church leadership (The Cardinals?) could just use him as a “figurehead,” and act as the real power behind the throne until he dies. ---
**Author:** ![Chagto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@Chagto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chagto)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/3 "2003-09-29T06:30:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > \*\*Who says anyone has to know? I’d imagine that the higher church leadership (The Cardinals?) could just use him as a “figurehead,” and act as the real power behind the throne until he dies. \*\* Of what i’ve heard of his latest new rules, thats prolly already happened 😉 ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/4 "2003-09-29T06:48:42Z")
Is there something official though? ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/5 "2003-09-29T07:07:17Z")
What does the OP mean by ‘when’? ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/6 "2003-09-29T07:22:35Z")
The important thing is, he’s not a woman. Anyway, I don’t know if there’s an official policy or aught, but how often does he actually get to set policy? There’s a beurocracy involved, and that tends to be the mediating factor that allows the established order to work its way around these little problems, whether there’s an official policy or not. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/7 "2003-09-29T07:23:59Z")
When as in at the time the pope goes senile… As in, “_What happens when the president gets shot?_”. The vice president takes over! Due to the context of the question I don’t understand what you are confusing when with… ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/8 "2003-09-29T07:39:01Z")
The current Pope’s body is clearly failing him, but I’ve yet to see that his mind is weakening. As to what happens when a Pope goes senile, I don’t really know, though the situation must have come up before. There used to be a saying that “the Pope is always in perfect health, until he’s dead”. Which is to say, traditionally, the Roman Catholic Church didn’t announce that the Pope was ill, senile, or anything else. A pope who could not fulfill his duties would simply be cloistered away in the Vatican and no one would answer any questions until he died. John Paul II has been too active outside the Vatican walls for this to be feasible, and he chose to be seen with his infirmities, although even then it took years before anyone confirmed that he had Parkinson’s. There’s nothing about the day-to-day running of the RCC that requires a healthy pope, and there’s no formal procedure for someone to take over as Vice-Pope or Regent. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/9 "2003-09-29T08:13:32Z")
surely they would just take him to Lourdes? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/10 "2003-09-29T08:26:06Z")
You mean he \* isn’t?\* ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/11 "2003-09-29T11:42:48Z")
He’d begin to shit in the woods ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/12 "2003-09-29T12:35:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alterego \* > \*\*When as in at the time the pope goes senile… > > As in, “_What happens when the president gets shot?_”. The vice president takes over! > > Due to the context of the question I don’t understand what you are confusing when with… \*\* **Monkey Mench** was trying to be funny by implying that the pope IS already senile (which he is). So, your question should have been “What happens now that the Pope is senile?” The obligatory…😉 , of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/13 "2003-09-29T12:52:47Z")
Wow - as usual, every answer in GQ, the forum for factual answers, is right on the money, eschewing editorializing in favor of a brusque Jack Webb “just the facts, ma’am,” style. Or so it would be in my Perfect World™. I’m looking at you, **Chagto**. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I don’t know if there’s an official policy or aught, but how often does he actually get to set policy? There’s a beurocracy involved, and that tends to be the mediating factor that allows the established order to work its way around these little problems, whether there’s an official policy or not. Canon law provides that the Pontiff is the supreme human authority within the church. He has full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church, and he is always permitted to freely exercise this power; there is no appeal or recourse against a judgment or a decree of his. He may resign (Can. 334 § 2) but may not be removed against his will. That’s the official rule. As **2trew** correctly points out, there is an organization in place to carry out the business of the Church, and that organization would resist and dramatic and sweeping changes or events. Catholics might add that the Holy Spirit protects against unwise innovations in church governance, even though unworthy men have certainly sat in the throne of St. Peter. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/14 "2003-09-29T13:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bakhesh \* > \*\*He’d begin to shit in the woods \*\* While it wasn’t a proper spit take, I did dribble coffee all over my clean white dress shirt when I read this. Darn you, **Bakhesh**. Darn you to heck! Happy ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/15 "2003-09-29T13:55:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bakhesh \* > \*\*He’d begin to shit in the woods \*\* What happens when the pope goes the weasel?;j ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/16 "2003-09-29T14:46:50Z")
Senator Byrd of West Virginia looks absolutely batshit lately, compared to the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/17 "2003-09-29T15:01:42Z")
“and the pope doesn’t exactly look too healthy either (to be honest!).” Yeah, but isn’t alot of that jet lag? Ive seen people who travel a lot & that jet lag is something to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/18 "2003-09-29T21:47:10Z")
Stop yer speculatin’. Here’s the SD from experts (who don’t know anything): From [Religion and Ethics Newseekly (PBS)](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week518/perspectives.html): > [@](#): > > ABERNETHY: Nevertheless, what would happen if the Pope were to become incapacitated, unable to do any work? > > Mr. ALLEN: Well, this is the $64,000 question at the Vatican, and the truth is, we just don’t know. I have written on this question extensively, interviewed canon lawyers, people in the highest positions at the Vatican. And the reality is the Church law simply makes no provision for a line of succession, and of course, there is no “Vice Pope.” And what could happen is that we could get paralysis. That is you could have a diocese, for example, that goes months or even years without a bishop, because no one in the Vatican has the authority to appoint a new one. So, I think a lot of people believe this is a very urgent reform that needs to be carried out. And from [America Press](http://www.americapress.org/reese/america/a-papel1.htm) > [@](#): > > If the pope were psychologically impaired and refused to resign, the church would be faced with a canonical nightmare. Likewise a pope with Alzheimer’s who refused to step down is not something anyone wants to contemplate. There are currently no canonically acceptable procedures for removing a crazy pope. In the good old days his staff might lock him in his rooms and run the church until he died. In the bad old days someone would poison him. Either strategy would be difficult to carry out in the full blaze of today’s media attention. > > How many crazy popes the church has suffered through… ## Peace. “The Galactic Pope has just become Flux Incapacitated!” ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/19 "2003-09-30T01:21:10Z")
Someone mentioned those new “rules.” According to what I read, they were just a proposal, and they haven’t even been presented to the pope. If I were a betting man, I’d bet that some especially stodgy and hide-bound old bishop was trying to slip something past the pope before he dies. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/20 "2003-09-30T03:19:55Z")
[This happens.](http://www.theonion.com/onion3505/pope_blesses.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433.md?page=2)