# What happens when the pope goes senile? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433 "2003-09-29T05:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/21 "2003-09-30T05:57:22Z")
Thanks for the great factual answers I received. The rest of you can kindly keep your tongue-in-cheek comments in MPSIMS :wally ---
**Author:** ![Chagto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@Chagto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chagto)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/22 "2003-09-30T06:45:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > …Or so it would be in my Perfect World™. I’m looking at you, **Chagto**. now now, I didnt mean to cause offense to any1. I am Catholic, and as such reserve the right to just a little bit of tongue-in-cheek. And the “;)” i inserted was meant to convey 'Just Kiddin." The reports I have read indicate that the pope has indeed seen these new ‘rules’ and has pretty much approved them. So in a slight hijack, does any1 know whether or not he has? Btw, the ‘rules’ i’m referring to are the ones including a total ban on eucumenical(sp?) services, as well as banning altar-girls, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/23 "2003-09-30T11:43:59Z")
Yep, those are the “rules,” and the article I read last sunday in the Michigan Catholic said that the proposal hadn’t yet been submitted to the pope for consideration. There are other new rules, however, that have been approved and will go into effect starting this Advent. People will be required to bow their heads when receiving communion, and people are encouraged (tho not required) to hold hands during the saying of the Our Father. Maybe you’re conflating this with the proposal? ---
**Author:** ![Pergau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7c8e57/32.png) [@Pergau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pergau)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/24 "2003-09-30T11:55:04Z")
This Pope has said, a number of times, that he will not resign. He believes in the doctrine of Papal infallibility and thus thinks that it would be impossible to have a retired Pope (who is infallible) and an elected Pope (who is also infallible). (It would be cool to see and argument between two infallible people e.g. me and Mrs Pergau ) ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/25 "2003-09-30T12:03:29Z")
Of course he would say that, he’s senile! =) _puts his tongue-in-cheek comments back where they belong_ ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/26 "2003-09-30T12:36:01Z")
IIRC, the Pope is only infallible when speaking _ex cathedra_ on matters of the faith. ([Protestant] The Pope is not infallible anyway. No human being is. The doctrine of Papal infallibility is a lot of silly nonsense. [/Protestant].) Presumably, you could frame the process of Papal retirement so that a retired Pope would, by definition, not be able to speak _ex cathedra_ … so that problem wouldn’t arise. (I know there’s a procedure for a Papal resignation, but IIRC there haven’t been any of those since the whole “infallibility” thing arose - the doctrine of Papal infallibility is relatively recent, it dates only from Vatican I, although Popes prior to that council might certainly have _behaved_ as if they were infallible … ) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/27 "2003-09-30T14:16:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pergau \* > This Pope has said, a number of times, that he will not resign. He believes in the doctrine of Papal infallibility and thus thinks that it would be impossible to have a retired Pope (who is infallible) and an elected Pope (who is also infallible). > > (It would be cool to see and argument between two infallible people e.g. me and Mrs Pergau ) **Pergau** : This is GQ. It is appropriate to provide factual answers to questions. Your answer suggests that you don’t understand the doctrine of papal infallibility. The conclusion you reach - that it is impossible to have a retired infalliable Pope and an elected infallible Pope - is not consistent with the way Papal infallibility works. So I must ask you two questions: 1. What is your understanding of Papal infallibility? 2. Why would you post an answer in a GQ thread when you didn’t know your answer was correct? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/28 "2003-09-30T14:25:32Z")
Papal infalliability only applies to when the Pope is speaking _ex cathedra_ on matters of faith. If the Pope declares that it will rain tomorrow and it’s sunny and dry, there’s no crisis of faith among the pious. If the Pope declares that Mary was born without original sin, however, that is an infalliable dicta from the head of the Roman Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/29 "2003-09-30T16:01:31Z")
An update: I just heard on the NPR that the pope is in a bad way, that the pontiff can no longer stand or walk. Tuesday, 11:10am Central US time. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/30 "2003-09-30T16:05:37Z")
I was just reading about that on [MSN.com](http://MSN.com). It looks like this discussion might become academic very soon ☹ ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/31 "2003-09-30T16:23:53Z")
Thats ironic. I hope I didn’t jinx him or something. I guess he really is senile, too. ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/32 "2003-09-30T16:58:13Z")
Can’t help it. Instead of saying, “The Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost”, he says, “Eenie, meenie, miney, mo”. ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/33 "2003-09-30T17:11:14Z")
[You DID jinx the Pope!!](http://www.msnbc.com/news/973011.asp?0cv=CB10) :eek: Bad.Karma. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/34 "2003-09-30T21:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pergau \* > **This Pope has said, a number of times, that he will not resign. He believes in the doctrine of Papal infallibility and thus thinks that it would be impossible to have a retired Pope (who is infallible) and an elected Pope (who is also infallible).** This is so not true and bizarre, that if you want anyone here to believe it, you’d better come up with a citation. ======== WRT: The MSN and MSNBC reports… Blechhh. That just shows how awful TV and Internet news are. Go to a print journalism source like [this](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030930/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_pope_5) and find out it may not be that bad. (Or it could be, Vatican spokesmen are notoriously over-optimistic with the Pope’s health status.) ## Peace. Where do I register to vote in the next Papal election? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/35 "2003-09-30T22:35:13Z")
It’s doubtful that this Pope has to refuse to resign very loudly. As alluded to above, a retired Pope would create a major headache as far as canon law and Vatican protocol are concerned. Supposedly, Paul VI WANTED to step down, and was very strongly advised not to because of the mess it would create. The Vatican bureaucracy simply does not want to have to deal with this, and will go to any lengths to avoid it. I would imagine there are some functionaries inside the Vatican who privately wish that John Paul II would hurry up and drop dead so that they can have an election and get back to normal. One fact I find rather impressive is that of the 109 current voting Cardinals, John Paul appointed 104. Chances by American Presidents to pack the Supreme Court pale by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/36 "2003-10-01T05:40:08Z")
**yabob,** the pope just appointed an additional 31 cardinals FYI ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/37 "2003-10-01T10:48:52Z")
Bit of online digging in the Catholic Encyclopaedia tells me the procedure for a Papal abdication was formalized in 1295, and the latest one took place in 1415. So, the administrative process is there, but it hasn’t been used in a while … ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/38 "2003-10-01T11:05:49Z")
cool **Steve** do you have a link to that? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/39 "2003-10-01T11:41:03Z")
[Abdication](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01031a.htm). (BTW, I see, now, I meant 1294, not 1295. Ahem. I blame keyboard elves, moving the numbers around when I wasn’t looking.) ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433/40 "2003-10-01T12:10:39Z")
Thanks =) Don’t worry, it was just a year. Could have been worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-pope-goes-senile/204433.md?page=3)