# What happens when the Virginia legislature ratifies the Equal Rights Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081 "2019-11-06T16:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/41 "2019-11-07T19:09:34Z")
Two yes or no questions… Did the Nebraska legislature ratify the ERA on March 29, 1972? Did the Nebraska legislature ratify the ERA? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/42 "2019-11-07T20:02:12Z")
Yes to the first, No to the second. Now your turn - Did the Nebraska legislature rescind its ratification on March 15, 1973? Did the Nebraska legislature rescind its ratification? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/43 "2019-11-07T20:12:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes to the first, No to the second. > > Now your turn - > > Did the Nebraska legislature rescind its ratification on March 15, 1973? > > Did the Nebraska legislature rescind its ratification? > > Regards, > Shodan Your answers are logically inconsistent. My answers to your questions are yes and yes, but I’ve said all along that states are free to rescind ratification. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I 100% agree that states can rescind ratification. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/44 "2019-11-07T20:21:08Z")
Saying they are free to do it, but it doesn’t have the force of law, is a meaningless statement. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/45 "2019-11-07T20:24:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Saying they are free to do it, but it doesn’t have the force of law, is a meaningless statement. This is bizarre. It has a very specific meaning. It also has historical precedent to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/46 "2019-11-07T23:26:41Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I don’t see SCOTUS ruling that either. I do, however, see a textualist argument that states rescinding ratification has no legal weight. You do, I don’t. The Tenth Amendment reserves all rights not mentioned to the states and the people, and I think the right for a state to make a time sensitive offer is within their prerogative. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There’s nothing in the text about three quarters of the states having **currently** ratified the proposed amendment. The text is, “when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states.” Should Virginia ratify the ERA it will have been ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states. There is no such “when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states” if, at the time of Virginia’s ratification, more than one fourth of the states refuse to endorse the proposal. “Three fourths of the several states” is calculated at the instant of the latest ratification, not when the amendment was originally proposed. To say that ratification of the legislatures of three fourths of the several states simultaneously refers to the “several states” of today, and their long outdated opinions from decades ago, is to twist the text of the constitution on its head. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/47 "2019-11-07T23:39:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … > The text says that three quarters of states have to ratify an amendment. Three quarters have not ratified - five of them have rescinded their ratification. There is nothing in the text that says they can’t do that… But there’s nothing that says they can rescind either. Thus, it doesnt appear they can, however obviously it will be up to SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/48 "2019-11-07T23:47:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > You do, I don’t. The Tenth Amendment reserves all rights not mentioned to the states and the people, and I think the right for a state to make a time sensitive offer is within their prerogative. > There is no such “when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states” if, at the time of Virginia’s ratification, more than one fourth of the states refuse to endorse the proposal. “Three fourths of the several states” is calculated at the instant of the latest ratification, not when the amendment was originally proposed. To say that ratification of the legislatures of three fourths of the several states simultaneously refers to the “several states” of today, and their long outdated opinions from decades ago, is to twist the text of the constitution on its head. > > ~Max Very weird. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/49 "2019-11-07T23:54:23Z")
Did Nebraska ratify the amendment? Yes. Is the amendment ratified by Nebraska? No. The Constitution doesn’t say that an amendment will go into effect **after** ratified by three-quarters of the states; it says that it goes into effect **when** ratified by three-quarters of the states. There needs not only be a time when 38 ratifications are in the past; there needs to be a time when 38 ratifications are in the present. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/50 "2019-11-07T23:57:03Z")
To all those who think a state can rescind- how about if a state wants to now rescind their approval of say, the 13th & 14th Amendments? It doesnt specifically state they cant do that, now does it? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/51 "2019-11-08T01:20:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > To all those who think a state can rescind- how about if a state wants to now rescind their approval of say, the 13th & 14th Amendments? It doesnt specifically state they cant do that, now does it? Those are already part of the constitution, and therefore the highest law of the land. According to the Supremacy clause, states cannot unilaterally change the constitution. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/52 "2019-11-08T13:50:46Z")
Yes, it does say that. Once an amendment becomes part of the Constitution, the process for that amendment is finished, and if a state wants to remove the amendment, the process starts over. See, for instance, the Eighteenth and Twenty First Amendments. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/53 "2019-11-08T15:25:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Constitution doesn’t say that an amendment will go into effect **after** ratified by three-quarters of the states; it says that it goes into effect **when** ratified by three-quarters of the states. There needs not only be a time when 38 ratifications are in the past; there needs to be a time when 38 ratifications are in the present. I think this is deep into dubious grammatical nitpickery. It is pretty much the norm that that construction means “when X has happened.” Really the only question of interest is the 7-year deadline, later extended to 10.5 years. My Google-fu is weak this morning; I can find the language of the proposed amendment itself, but not that of the text that includes the 7-year deadline. I notice that Amendments 18, 20, 21, and 22 include the 7-year deadline as part of the text of the Amendment itself, while the deadline for the ERA is not included in that text. I’d be interested to know what the legal eagles here think about whether and in what ways that difference might matter. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/54 "2019-11-08T18:10:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, it does say that. Once an amendment becomes part of the Constitution, the process for that amendment is finished, and if a state wants to remove the amendment, the process starts over. > > See, for instance, the Eighteenth and Twenty First Amendments. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, I meant _individual_ states cannot unilaterally change the constitution by revoking an amendment. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/55 "2019-11-08T19:33:07Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Two yes or no questions… > > Did the Nebraska legislature ratify the ERA on March 29, 1972? > > Did the Nebraska legislature ratify the ERA? According to a possible interpretation of the law, the answer to the first question is yes, the answer to the second question was yes until it was recinded at which point the answer became no. In the same way the question Did Michgan pass a law against serving alcohol on Sunday in 1998? Yes. Does Michigan have a law that makes it illegal to serve alcohol on Sunday? No. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/56 "2019-11-08T19:51:42Z")
Since the Constitution doesn’t define “ratify”, presumably the way to answer this question will be to look at historical uses of the word and determine if it was a one-way process that couldn’t be revoked or if it was the other thing. From a practical point of view, it seems weird to me that you’d want an Amendment process to be a ratchet that could only move inexorably toward conclusion. Do we really want to have an Amendment to the Constitution happen if one current state legislature thinks it should even if others that previously thought it was a good idea have officially changed their minds, or been voted out by The People who didn’t want that Amendment? I find that to be pretty hard to square with my understanding of early American political history. > [@Alexander Hamilton](#): > > And consequently, whenever nine, or rather ten States, were united in the desire of a particular amendment, that amendment must infallibly take place. Seems pretty hard to argue that states that rescinded their approval decades ago are part of a group of states “united in the desire of a particular amendment”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/57 "2019-11-08T21:07:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **RTFirefly** : > > I think this is deep into dubious grammatical nitpickery. It is pretty much the norm that that construction means “when X has happened.” “When everyone has arrived, we can start the meeting.” Jane arrived five minutes early, but then had to duck out to use the restroom. Seven minutes later, everyone else is here, but Jane hasn’t gotten back yet. Do we start the meeting? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/58 "2019-11-09T04:40:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > According to a possible interpretation of the law, the answer to the first question is yes, the answer to the second question was yes until it was recinded at which point the answer became no. > > In the same way the question > Did Michgan pass a law against serving alcohol on Sunday in 1998? Yes. > Does Michigan have a law that makes it illegal to serve alcohol on Sunday? No. It’s weird that you changed the verb there. Did you think no one would notice? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/59 "2019-11-09T04:41:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “When everyone has arrived, we can start the meeting.” > Jane arrived five minutes early, but then had to duck out to use the restroom. Seven minutes later, everyone else is here, but Jane hasn’t gotten back yet. Do we start the meeting? In my experience that meeting starts without Jane. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081/60 "2019-11-09T06:23:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The amendments are meant to be permanent until another amendment makes them not so permanent. But I don’t see how that is relevant here. There is no amendment currently just a proposal. There is also nothing in the constitution that says there can’t be a time limit. There is also nothing in the constitution stating that states can’t rescind their ratification. [There’s also no rule that a dog can’t play basketball.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvf0WWxrYRM) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-virginia-legislature-ratifies-the-equal-rights-amendment/843081.md?page=4)