# What has been the general reaction to Biles stepping down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** olympic-sports-track\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537 "2021-07-28T17:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/182 "2021-08-02T16:07:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In a lengthy thread where I posted many, many times they pounce on and repeat one thing I said that was not great and ignore the many, many posts where I said she was right to withdraw. With plenty of qualifiers, but sure: Are we now in agreement that Biles is suffering from a debilitating condition that makes her **unable to compete** , that stepping down was the only reasonable course of action, that she’s given this competition 100%, and that she has “let down” exactly zero people because she has no control over when the twisties appear or how long it will take to correct the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/183 "2021-08-02T16:59:14Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > > [@Hamlet](#): > > > > I also believe she is no longer on my Mount Rushmore of Greatest Athletes of All Time. Not that that matters at all. > > I’ll bite… Who is on it? Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Jackie Joyner Kersee, and Wayne Gretzky. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/184 "2021-08-02T17:13:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ITT not praising her is denigrating her. “She let down her team and her country,” is denigrating her. That doesn’t change, no matter how many time you preface it with, “I’m not denigrating her, but…” ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/185 "2021-08-02T18:36:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have been explicit that I think she should neither be lauded nor denigrated. I think in an ideal world, someone withdrawing from a competition, even a team comptition, for clear and present medical reasons should be neither lauded nor denigrated. But the point a lot of people are trying to make is that USA gymnastics, in its treatment of athletes (particularly young and female ones) has been genuinely awful in any number of ways, including (although certainly not limited to) removing all agency from them in control of their own health. Biles’ withdrawal is seen as a massive step away from that disfunctional and oppressive past. Simply saying “she made a reasonable decision for herself, she doesn’t deserve to be either criticized or praised” is like saying “those little black kids in Little Rock just went to school. You shouldn’t be either criticized or praised for going to school”. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/186 "2021-08-02T18:39:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “She let down her team and her country,” is denigrating her. That doesn’t change, no matter how many time you preface it with, “I’m not denigrating her, but…” I think there’s a teeny bit of subtlety there. Again, going back to the analogy of a more “obvious” injury, if Tom Brady broke his leg on the first snap of the super bowl, he might well say something like “I feel awful for letting my team down”, and everyone would understand that he was disappointed, but that there was no moral/ethical “blame” towards him for nor trying to play on a broken leg. That said, it’s a pretty loaded term, and I suspect most people using it are not intending it in a judgment-neutral context like the above. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/187 "2021-08-02T19:05:04Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Simply saying “she made a reasonable decision for herself, she doesn’t deserve to be either criticized or praised” is like saying “those little black kids in Little Rock just went to school. You shouldn’t be either criticized or praised for going to school”. What? On what planet is that equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/188 "2021-08-02T22:03:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > On what planet is that equivalent? …on this planet. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/189 "2021-08-03T00:48:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > On what planet is that equivalent? On the planet where (a) analogies don’t mean that every aspect of the situations are equal, or equally important, and (b) the context surrounding events matters a lot. Or, in other words, as Banquet\_Bear says… on this planet. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/190 "2021-08-03T01:30:42Z")
And in case you didn’t connect the dots, the REASON it’s equivalent is because the history of the sport has been to force the gymnasts to compete even though they have the twisties, and it took courage and Biles’ personal standing for her to say, “no”. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/191 "2021-08-03T02:04:07Z")
> **[Conservatives Blast Simone Biles For Robbing Them Of Opportunity To Criticize...](https://www.theonion.com/conservatives-blast-simone-biles-for-robbing-them-of-op-1847380497)** > > NEW YORK—Accusing her of being selfish and unfit to be a gold medal gymnast, conservatives blasted Simone Biles Wednesday for robbing them of the opportunity to criticize her win. “As of today, Ms. Biles has not only betrayed her country and her... ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/192 "2021-08-03T03:27:07Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And in case you didn’t connect the dots, the REASON it’s equivalent is because the history of the sport has been to force the gymnasts to compete even though they have the twisties, and it took courage and Biles’ personal standing for her to say, “no”. [https://twitter.com/ChloeAngyal/status/1422264249368330242](https://twitter.com/ChloeAngyal/status/1422264249368330242) > [@Chloe Angyal](#): > > Genuinely disorienting to spend two decades ashamed of quitting gym because of twisties/balking, only to learn this week that it’s not - as my coaches made us feel - a moral failure of willpower and discipline, but actually a common, well-documented, and neutral phenomenon. > > Technically, I quit because of injuries. Truthfully, I was relieved to be injured so I’d have a “real” reason to quit. > > I was 13 years old and _relieved_ to have busted my knee in the middle of a national competition, because that wasn’t a moral failure, it was just an accident. > > Anyway, thanks to my former coach for making me feel like I was the one who failed, even as you sexually assaulted my teammates. I hope you get absolutely everything you deserve. …for those in the thread wondering why this has never come up before? Well, this is why. Because parents and coaches and doctors and organizations were making 13 year-old kids think they were moral _failures_ if they didn’t compete. Just because you’ve never heard of it before doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Gymnastics is rife with corruption, cruelty and sexual abuse. This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/193 "2021-08-03T12:08:17Z")
Little girls facing racism to go to school is in no way equivalent to an adult who chose to compete in a sport deciding, on her own, to withdraw. It’s not even close. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/194 "2021-08-03T13:42:09Z")
I wonder if Twisties/balking is a problem with fluid in the middle ear? I know it can cause dizziness and is a very common problem. My dad was on meds for his middle ear and still had occasional dizzy spells. I’ve know several mechanics that fought dizziness on car creepers. One friend changed jobs. My parents mechanic got meds and managed to keep working. He told me the problem came and went several times during his career. I’m glad Biles managed to compete in one routine and finish with Bronze. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/195 "2021-08-03T13:53:52Z")
If she had competed and lost, conservatives would criticize her for not ambushing the winner after the event, beating the crap out of her, stealing the gold medal and proclaiming loudly that she was the real winner. Because it’s all about winning, no matter what. Sportsmanship is the antithesis of the new conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/196 "2021-08-03T13:58:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wonder if Twisties/balking is a problem with fluid in the middle ear? > > I know it can cause dizziness and is a very common problem. My dad was on meds for his middle ear and still had occasional dizzy spells. > > I’ve know several mechanics that fought dizziness on car creepers. One friend changed jobs. My parents mechanic got meds and managed to keep working. He told me the problem came and went several times during his career. > > I’m glad Biles managed to compete in one routine and finish with Bronze. One thing I wondered all through this controversy is if the reaction towards her would’ve been as harsh if it had been an ear infection that caused her orientation problems, rather than a “mental health issue.” ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/197 "2021-08-03T14:24:22Z")
I wouldn’t classify this as a mental health problem. To me, mental issues seems more like something where the stress gets to her and she can’t compete because she’s overwhelmed. Although the twisties may be a problem with a basis in the brain, it doesn’t seem like something we would typically classify as “mental health”. If someone has a migraine, we don’t say they’re suffering from a mental health issue. Mental health issues seem to be more commonly based around emotions or hormone imbalances in the brain that affect happiness, satisfaction, or anxiety. The twisties seems more like a physical problem. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/198 "2021-08-03T14:33:03Z")
I’m glad to see former gymnasts speaking out. It seems like this is much more common than previously noted but the gymnasts were just encouraged to push through and compete anyway. > **[Gymnasts Left Paralyzed on the Very Real Dangers Biles Faced](https://www.si.com/olympics/2021/08/02/simone-biles-twisties-physical-risk-former-gymnasts-left-paralyzed)** > > The conversation around her withdrawal has centered mostly on mental health, but the U.S. gymnast also protected herself from serious physical risk. I have seen both McKayla Maroney and Dominique Moceanu comment on how toxic the Karolyis were and how they were forced to compete injured. It seems like the tide has turned and the gymnasts aren’t afraid to speak up for their own health. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/199 "2021-08-03T14:46:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Little girls facing racism to go to school is in no way equivalent to an adult who chose to compete in a sport deciding, on her own, to withdraw. > > It’s not even close. One was a young black female who was the target of a vast amount of irrational hatred for daring to challenge an abusive orthodoxy and do something that, in an ideal world, would be completely unremarkable were it not for all the ingrained systemic discrimination ranked against her, and the other…was a Little Rock schoolgirl. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/200 "2021-08-03T15:10:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yeah…I agree. > > My impression is that sure…if you think you cannot safely perform then you absolutely should withdraw. No question. Right move. > > But is that “laudatory”? I’d say no. It is the smart move but she has been competing most of her life and her team relies on her. > > If Biles felt she could not safely perform then she 100% made the right choice for herself but I do not know that she deserves praise for that. Likewise she should not be ridiculed. More of a neutral, “Ok, you have to do what is right for you” and leave it at that. I know this is an older post but this is exactly how I feel and tried explaining to my wife this weekend. I don’t think she should be praised or ridiculed for this. Clearly the pressure/environment/stress got to her and she decided to bow out on the worlds biggest stage. She shouldn’t be ridiculed for cracking under pressure, all of us do it, and she’s performed under immense pressure 100’s of times more than most of us, but I don’t think people are being honest when they say this shouldn’t effect her legacy. It should and it will. Doesn’t mean she isn’t still a badass elite athlete with a huge book of amazing accomplishments but anyone who tells the story in the future and pretends her withdrawl didn’t happen/wasn’t a big deal isn’t being genuine. It’s like an elite pitcher pulling himself off the mound in game 7 of the world series because his shoulder is tight. He’ll always be known as an elite pitcher but will always have the tap out as part of his story. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/201 "2021-08-03T15:21:28Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > It’s like an elite pitcher pulling himself off the mound in game 7 of the world series because his shoulder is tight. …it’s more like an elite pitcher pulling himself off the mound in game 7 of the world series because he suddenly can’t see. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > He’ll always be known as an elite pitcher but will always have the tap out as part of his story. History will remember Biles for an entirely different reason than the one you believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=11)