# What has been the general reaction to Biles stepping down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** olympic-sports-track\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537 "2021-07-28T17:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/202 "2021-08-03T15:24:16Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …it’s more like an elite pitcher pulling himself off the mound in game 7 of the world series because he suddenly can’t see. Thats fair. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > History will remember Biles for an entirely different reason than the one you believe. I’m not saying she will be remembered for withdrawing from the Olympics. I’m saying withdrawing from the Olympics will be a part of her legacy, along with all of the other amazing things she has accomplished. One does not invalidate the other. They both just “are”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/203 "2021-08-03T15:32:54Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > **I’m saying withdrawing from the Olympics will be a part of her legacy** , along with all of the other amazing things she has accomplished. One does not invalidate the other. They both just “are”. …yeah, but you don’t seem to be understanding what that legacy will be. And that legacy will be greater agency for competitors in a sport that has historically allowed abusive behaviour to proliferate. She didn’t “tap out.” She “stood up.” And **that** will be her legacy. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/204 "2021-08-03T15:43:18Z")
OK to be fair now you seem to be asserting that this may ONLY be referred to in positive terms. Not just not a negative. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/205 "2021-08-03T17:53:50Z")
There have been a lot of professional athletes older than Biles who’ve had to deal with “the yips.” Some of them, like [Jon Lester](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lester), have worked through it. Rick Ankiel suffered so dramatically that his career as a pitcher effectively ended. Frankly, I’m glad that people are finally treating the problem with more sympathy and understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/206 "2021-08-03T18:39:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > an adult who chose to compete in a sport deciding, on her own, to withdraw. Do you realize that, because of immense institutional and social pressure, for years and years adults did not decide on their own to withdraw even when they really should have? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/207 "2021-08-03T20:19:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > for years and years adults did not decide on their own to withdraw Now, let’s be fair, many of those gymnasts forced to compete with broken bones and other injuries were minors. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/208 "2021-08-03T20:26:37Z")
Bone spurs and she would have had an absolute pass! ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/209 "2021-08-03T21:11:35Z")
This seems to highlight the false dichotomy of mind/body that some strongly adhere to. Like the brain and its functions are not part of the body, and some illnesses of the brain, or involving the brain are less valid, or can be overcome by force of will. Like, no one would be talking about Biles withdrawing because she “decided” she couldn’t compete with a broken leg. I have migraines. I get an aura (it’s the technical term – wish it was different) which disrupts my vision for around 20 minutes. It happens without warning, and goes away completely on its own. (And I’m lucky in that I often don’t get a headache after mine – sometimes it’s just the aura.) The twisties doesn’t seem so different to me, though they seem to be longer lasting. It seems to be a sudden loss of at least one aspect of proprioception, and the ability to access “automatic” movements. I’m not saying the twisties is a kind of migraine, but I see similarities that may help me understand that this is not something an athlete can just power through somehow. At least, not without great risk, in the case of gymnasts and divers. And even if anxiety might play a role in triggering it, that still doesn’t make it about mental weakness. I mean, if the chemicals associated with stress trigger a sudden loss of certain brain functions, that doesn’t mean you can just buckle down and make it go away by force of will. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/210 "2021-08-04T22:53:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …yeah, but you don’t seem to be understanding what that legacy will be. And that legacy will be greater agency for competitors in a sport that has historically allowed abusive behaviour to proliferate. > > She didn’t “tap out.” She “stood up.” > > And **that** will be her legacy. She stood up. That’s the point, and it’s important. I’ve read a lot about elite gymnastics and was an avid fan when I was little, still am, but with a lot more knowledge about the culture and expectations. The risks these girls face are WAY higher than in most sports when it comes to life-threatening injuries. The only sport I can think of that comes close is cycling. In the good old days, they were forced to compete no matter what. A few examples have already been given, but I’d like to add the story of Elena Mukhina, who was forced to practice on a badly healed leg fracture into doing a Thomas salto (a skill so dangerous it has been banned since), underrotated on the landing and broke her neck, leaving her paraplegic. She said in an interview that her first thought was “thank God I don’t have to go to the Olympics now”. She was an orphan, brought up in the Soviet system. She literally didn’t have anywhere to go, nor anyone who could stand up for her. She had no choice and no say in the matter. Given that the Olympics are THE most important event for gymnasts in the elite level and people build their lives around having a shot at competing, with parents taking second mortgages to allow their daughters to train with top-level coaches like the Karolyis, giving up or not feeling good is hardly an option to these girls. There’s simply too much at stake and too much invested. Plus if they’ve come to that level, they’ve usually been conditioned out of having an opinion. You only have to look at the stories that came out in the wake of the Nassar/USAG scandal to see what they had to put up with. Simone Biles has shown that it can be done, that it’s possible to set limits and come out alive. Of course, she’s exceptional and has already proven what she’s capable of. She’s using that stature and influence to set a positive example and is thereby creating options. For that, IMHO, she deserves praise. And it gives me hope that perhaps things are changing. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/211 "2021-08-04T23:17:04Z")
Her lifestory will make an amazing biopic one day. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/212 "2021-08-04T23:56:41Z")
Isn’t she really young? Like 24? I hope she has a lot more life story to go. ---
**Author:** ![Tarataratara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Tarataratara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarataratara)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/213 "2021-08-06T04:49:47Z")
There was a very cute made for TV movie about her a few years ago. [The Simone Biles Story: Courage to Soar (TV Movie 2018) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7978660/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/214 "2021-08-06T19:25:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you realize that, because of immense institutional and social pressure, for years and years adults did not decide on their own to withdraw even when they really should have? So, explain how this works? Competition inherently imposes pressure on the athletes. Gymnastics is an inherently dangerous sport. Only a psychopath would want to see anyone harmed. I certainly do not want to see Biles, or any other athlete, injured. And the trick here is it takes someone of Biles’ caliber to standup to the orthodoxy. Young athletes are trying to make their name and advance in the sport and are much more likely to push the boundaries. Is that “adults pushing them”? Maybe. Maybe not. Given your post it would seem best to argue that gymnastics should be banned as a sport. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/215 "2021-08-06T19:55:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Given your post it would seem best to argue that gymnastics should be banned as a sport. It certainly has its problems. In the most dangerous sports, there is a (supposedly) impartial doctor who is empowered to declare athletes unfit to continue in the competition. In other sports, often involving youth, there are rules that (supposedly) restrict the frequency and length of practice. We could also, as human beings, dial back the ‘win at all costs’ mentality that drives coaches and athletes to risk their health and lives to win a particular competition. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/216 "2021-08-06T20:49:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … > Given your post it would seem best to argue that gymnastics should be banned as a sport. Coaching gymnastics the way it used to be coached should certainly be banned. > **[USA Gymnastics sex abuse scandal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Gymnastics_sex_abuse_scandal)** > > The USA Gymnastics sex abuse scandal relates to the sexual abuse of hundreds of gymnasts—primarily minors at the time of the abuse—over two decades in the United States, starting in the 1990s. More than 500 athletes alleged that they were sexually assaulted "by gym owners, coaches, and staff working for gymnastics programs across the country", including USA Gymnastics (USAG) and Michigan State University (MSU). It is considered the largest sexual abuse scandal in sports history. The abuses wer... ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/217 "2021-08-07T02:37:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We could also, as human beings, dial back the ‘win at all costs’ mentality that drives coaches and athletes to risk their health and lives to win a particular competition. I do not know how you do this. Competition mandates that you need to be better than the other person. That leads to a cycle of needing to be “better” than the next person which means pushing yourself to the limits of human capability. Indeed, isn’t the whole Olympics about athletes pushing themselves to their limits? If we have it your way then we need to stop all competition. Is that what you want? We could probably argue that Ping-Pong competition is deleterious. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/218 "2021-08-07T02:52:49Z")
Seriously? Do you mean to say a sex abuse scandal should affect the whole sport of gymnastics? To be clear, I am with you 100% in wanting to stopping sex abuse. I’m just not seeing the connection here except to say the sport should be stopped because abuse happens. Frankly, all the pious people here telling us how horrible gymnastics is can only argue for its banishment. There is no middle ground. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/219 "2021-08-07T11:18:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know how you do this. It starts with the people running the sport changing the rules around the competition so that the horribly dangerous things people do (or might do) to win… no longer help them win. It ends with the people watching the sport shutting their pie holes about how the sport has been ‘sissified’ or ‘ruined’ because of the changes. What you get is ‘pushing to the limit’ under competition rules that ensure ‘pushing the limit’ isn’t an inherently death defying stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/220 "2021-08-07T11:58:39Z")
There used to be, in the long ago before post-conservatism, a thing called sportsmanship. Healthy competition, I think they called it. You did your best, you worked your hardest, but you accepted that sometimes you wouldn’t win. You prioritized obeying the rules of the sport over winning at all costs. You knew there was a point when it was over. You didn’t risk your own life or the lives of others for a game. If you had an opportunity during the race to break the leg of your opponent without being found out, you didn’t do it. Failing to do so didn’t mean that you weren’t a fighter, that you didn’t want to win badly enough. It used to be, in the old days, that your win was tainted if you cheated - even if you didn’t get caught. Imagine that! That psychology used to be an important part of sport, the capacity to graciously accept loss. Now half the population has recast that quality as weakness. If you lose the match, the only appropriate response is, of course, to ambush the winning team in the parking lot, beat the crap of them, steal the trophy and pronounce yourself the winner. Because it’s all about winning at all costs. But it wasn’t always that way, and maybe we can find our way back. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/221 "2021-08-07T12:12:39Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > That psychology used to be an important part of sport, the capacity to graciously accept loss. > > Now half the population has recast that quality as weakness. If you lose the match, the only appropriate response is, of course, to ambush the winning team in the parking lot, beat the crap of them, steal the trophy and pronounce yourself the winner. Because it’s all about winning at all costs. > > **But it wasn’t always that way, and maybe we can find our way back.** - It’s always been that way. > **[The Ancient History of Cheating in the Olympics](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-history-cheating-olympics-180960003/)** > > Punishment for cheating and bribery in the Olympics of Ancient Greece could include fines, public flogging and statewide bans from competition A couple of examples from pro sports: the beanball in baseball and clotheslining in football. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=12)