# What has been the general reaction to Biles stepping down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** olympic-sports-track\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537 "2021-07-28T17:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/222 "2021-08-07T12:22:04Z")
I’m not sure what this means. Competitors compete. It is a truism. Each year someone will try to do better than the people last year. Not to mention better than the people they are competing against at the moment. How do you have a “gentleman’s agreement” in sports that you will not do your best but just only ok(ish)? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/btHeD_uVLLI/maxresdefault.jpg "Gymnastics Have Changed for the Better | Rio Olympics | MTV News") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btHeD_uVLLI) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/223 "2021-08-07T12:35:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How do you have a “gentleman’s agreement” in sports that you will not do your best but just only ok(ish)? She didn’t say this. Please don’t change someone’s claim then ask them to support something they didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/224 "2021-08-07T12:35:59Z")
What did she say? Don’t cheat? I’m trying to parse her post in the context of this thread. I’ll say it again and you ignored: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m not sure what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/225 "2021-08-07T13:17:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What did she say? Don’t cheat? I’m trying to parse her post in the context of this thread. I’ll try to rephrase it. It is possible to have robust competition that does not involve risking the welfare of the participants. It is not actually necessary to encourage teenage girls to risk paralysis or lifelong disability in order for them to be the best gymnasts in the world. You are a fluent speaker of English, so I think you can understand that, so stop telling us that you don’t get it. If you disagree, then argue your point. Before you do, though, take a look at the Murkhina Flip and explain why this must be allowed as part of gymnastics competitions, because to ban it means the girls aren’t trying their best. [Mukhina flip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T34bg5fZmqE) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/226 "2021-08-07T13:22:55Z")
Ok. I am sure you can now tell us what should be prohibited in competition. No one wants to see the athletes injured. Certainly, the athletes do not want to be injured. So, what limits would you put in place if you could? Should boxing be banned? What sports are free from injury? How would you make everything at the Olympics “safe”? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/227 "2021-08-07T19:48:16Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > That psychology used to be an important part of sport, the capacity to graciously accept loss. > > Now half the population has recast that quality as weakness. If you lose the match, the only appropriate response is, of course, to ambush the winning team in the parking lot, beat the crap of them, steal the trophy and pronounce yourself the winner. Because it’s all about winning at all costs. It doesn’t help that for some athletes if they fail to win their home governments might severely punish them no matter how fair the competition. Punishments like beatings or jail time. [Uday Hussain made a bit of a name for himself doing that.](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/feb/02/athletics.duncanmackay1). [And here’s another cite about Uday.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein#Iraqi_Olympic_Committee) Authoritarian regimes can be hard on their athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/228 "2021-08-08T06:36:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Certainly, the athletes do not want to be injured. Congratulations on again changing what someone said to something else, and arguing against that. You’re getting a flawless victory against your own arguments! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/229 "2021-08-08T11:07:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am sure you can now tell us what should be prohibited in competition. I need to be an expert in every sport in the world for this to be an option? I’ll leave the details to the actual experts, the people in charge of all of these sports, and the Olympics, and the international federations. If the experts, who know 100x what I know about their sport, are incapable of setting rules to make their sport safe (accepting there is natural risk for vigorous athletic competition) then maybe the sport is too dangerous. But it’s not entirely about the rules, it’s about the fans as well. The armchair warriors who want the QB back on the field after a concussion, who want the teenage girl to suck it up, tape it up, and get back out there, or be called a pathetic failure. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/230 "2021-08-08T11:18:08Z")
It is interesting to me what we accept as completely foundational and impossible to be questioned. Such as competition as the highest form of human activity. No one can any longer imagine a world in which competition is not the basis of every single possible sport, every economic, political and even educational pursuit. The list of activities which are not competitive is small and getting smaller, as we think of ways to competitionize more and more aspects of life. I have watched the grotesque distortions, the ugly psychology, of all forms of competition my whole life, and never understood what the value of it was. Of course that is my speciality, seeing the dark side that almost no one else appears to be able to notice. We can only discuss the details of a competition, never why it’s so important that everything be competitive. I expect this post to be ignored as a hijack, although I do not think it is, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/231 "2021-08-08T18:46:54Z")
Huh? I did not attribute that to anyone. I said it. What are you on about? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/232 "2021-08-08T18:50:58Z")
You weren’t replying to Cheesesteak talking about paralysis and death and equivocating it to any injury? Just out of curiosity, who WERE you talking to, then? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/233 "2021-08-08T19:21:33Z")
I was talking to readers. It is quite possible to answer a previous post and then continue on with your own assessment/opinion. I made a statement. All mine. I think that is pretty clear and obvious. You can disagree with it if you want. There is nothing unusual about this. I’m really not understanding your complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/234 "2021-08-08T19:29:38Z")
I’d suggest competition is a root of the human condition. When have we not competed? We do it as children, in business, in sports, in gambling, in war and so on. I bet you played board games as a child (or even adult). Or cards. Seems kinda fundamental. More to the point, is it up to you or me to tell others they should not compete because we think they could be injured? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/235 "2021-08-08T19:43:09Z")
It is up to all of us to contribute to a worldview which doesn’t prioritize winning over safety, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Here’s an example of a sport which understands that distinction. > **[Brutal KO kick leads to Olympics disqualification of would-be winner in...](https://sports.yahoo.com/brutal-ko-kick-leads-to-disqualification-of-would-be-winner-in-karate-gold-medal-match-143116395.html)** > > Tareg Hamedi thought he had won the gold medal. Sajad Ganjzadeh learned it was his after waking up in a medical room. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/236 "2021-08-08T19:47:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’d suggest competition is a root of the human condition. When have we not competed? > > We do it as children, in business, in sports, in gambling, in war and so on. I bet you played board games as a child (or even adult). Or cards. > > Seems kinda fundamental. > > More to the point, is it up to you or me to tell others they should not compete because we think they could be injured? Yes, everyone in this culture does think it fundamental. Yet there are other cultures where it plays a small, specialized role or none at all. Where it is seen as harmful to the community. I don’t wish to tell anyone what they can and cannot do if it doesn’t harm anyone but themselves. But note that in reality, people are never completely autonomous in their choices, they are always influenced by others. We wouldn’t even be human if that wasn’t true. The enormous pressure that this caliber of athlete is under is something I think none of us can truly understand. That is why so many people – and apparently it is the large majority of those who have been following it – find Biles’ choice to step away from doing the expected thing and probably saving her own life in so doing, to be moving and heroic. I also believe that a lot of her support comes from women, who identify easily with how difficult it is to value yourself over others’ expectations of you, and how saying no to save yourself, when you have been taught that is forbidden, can be transformative. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/237 "2021-08-08T20:10:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’d suggest competition is a root of the human condition. When have we not competed? We compete; but we also cooperate. If we focus exclusively on competition, are we then missing out on the benefits of cooperation? I’ve heard it suggested by writers from Heinlein to Harari that the ability to cooperate is the key thing that differentiates us from the animal kingdom. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I bet you played board games as a child (or even adult). Interestingly enough, one recent genre of board game increasing in popularity is _cooperative_ games, where a table of players play against the game system to try to get to a good outcome. One of the pioneering games of the genre is, ironically, _Pandemic_ - perhaps our experience with our actual pandemic might have gone better if more people had played _Pandemic_. Our culture tends toward atomization and individualization; even team cooperation is done in the context of competition against an out-group (the opposing team). But the challenges that lie ahead are likely to involve cooperation against an unfriendly universe - rather more like the _Pandemic_ example. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/238 "2021-08-08T20:15:47Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Yes, everyone in this culture does think [competition] fundamental. Yet there are other cultures where it plays a small, specialized role or none at all. Where it is seen as harmful to the community. I don’t. I’m not saying it can’t be fun if handled in good sport, but I very much think the desire to have to try and be better than others is harmful. It assumes a zero sum game, when reality is that we can very often cooperate and get better results. In sports, I support friendly competition. It can be fun to go out there and compete with others to see who is more skilled. Plus there are many sports which require an opponent to function. But I definitely think it should be about having fun and improving oneself, not winning. Once the goal becomes winning at all costs, then, yeah, cheating will happen. That’s the driver for it. If you just wanted to have fun and be your best, cheating would accomplish nothing. And, since it’s friendly competition, it should be safe. I can 100% agree with that. And, if it is always up to the person to decide how much risk they want to take, then that’s fine, too. But no one should ever feel pressured into having to do something that would be harmful to them. Biles would have gotten hurt, so it’s wrong to pressure her into continuing. It’s good that Biles was willing and able to stand up for herself. It’s good that she wanted her team to do its best, which it would not do with her in her current condition. It’s good that she did not put personal glory above her wellbeing or her team. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/239 "2021-08-08T21:50:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’d suggest competition is a root of the human condition. When have we not competed? Humans also cooperate. That’s just as fundamental. We are a social species and that is not possible without cooperation. Heck, sometimes we cooperate as part of competition! (Team sports). Other times we don’t compete we work together on a common goal. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > More to the point, is it up to you or me to tell others they should not compete because we think they could be injured? Depends on the risks and how well informed the participants are. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/240 "2021-08-08T22:50:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Humans also cooperate. I do not think these things are mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/241 "2021-08-08T23:03:30Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What you get is ‘pushing to the limit’ under competition rules that ensure ‘pushing the limit’ isn’t an inherently death defying stunt. What you get is a 23-way tie for Gold Medal. So, participation trophies. I’m looking forward to that, I tells ya! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=13)