# What has been the general reaction to Biles stepping down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** olympic-sports-track\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537 "2021-07-28T17:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/122 "2021-07-31T20:32:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why does this matter? > > Biles entered the competition and, presumably, beat out other young women for the spot. > > Then Biles backed out. She let her team and country down doing so. There are always alternate participants brought along in case of illness or injury to the main players. As it is, one of those gymnasts (Susini Lee) won a gold medal in the exercise where she replaced Biles. Biles is not the whole of the team. She is not the only gold-medal gymnast on the team. The amount of scorn heaped on this young woman for making the responsible choice is despicable. > [@Morgyn](#): > > And while I generally like you as a poster, I wish you could get past this attitude that Biles did something wrong. She is working, right now, to try to overcome the problem in the hope she can compete in _something_ . Every gymnast in the world says she made the right choice for herself and for the team. Yeah, but you know how it is - every armchair quarterback sitting at home knows better than every world-class gymnast anywhere and any time. 🙄 > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ok…what are the alternatives? > > Did she help her team? Yes, yes she did. She stepped down to avoid 1) injuring herself, which would have had a terrible effect on morale and 2) to let someone else (like Sumisi Lee) have a chance at a high score/medal that would help the team. If someone on a team can’t perform for any reason the responsible thing is to not perform, especially if there is someone who can take their spot and do better than they could on a particular day. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If she wanted praise she would have backed out while it was still possible for an alternate to take her place. She let her team down by not doing that. Yeah, she should have taken that course on precognition so she would have known last month (or whenever) that in the future she would have a problem. Geez, guy, it’s not enough for you that she’s among the greatest gymnasts every, you now want her to be psychic, too. 🙄 > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Maybe she did and, again, to be 100% clear, she was right to withdraw if she felt she could not compete safely. And, again, we should not praise her as if she won gold for doing so. Who is praising her “like she won gold”? All I’m hearing is “good for her for taking care of her mental health and not risking an injury.” Og forbid we acknowledge she did the right thing, is that what you’re saying? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A mental health issue that only appeared at the last possible moment? No, it’s a mental health issue that became apparent while she was competing during a vault where she did a 1.5 twist instead of 2.5 twist because she lost her orientation in the air. A flub that mere mortals such as ourselves might not notice but was noticed by her team mates, her coaches, and the judges. She initially tried to power through it but couldn’t. So she did the responsible thing and withdrew before she hurt herself, got crappy scores for the team, and so on. While there could not be a complete replacement for her a couple other girls did get the opportunity to do more than they originally thought they would at these Games. I’m OK with all that, why aren’t you? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would suggest a battlefield soldier would notice they are getting to a breaking point before they break. Particularly if they have been in many battles before. You are wrong. “Shell shock” can come on suddenly. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You are suggesting a massive personal tragedy is the same as just deciding your head is not in the game? > > Really? > > And yeah, shell shock was a thing and in WWI they learned they needed to rotate soldiers out of battle for some R&R. > > What does ANY of that have to do with Biles? Are you unaware that Biles - along with a LOT of other young women - was sexually molested by the team doctor, Larry Nassar? Are you unaware that through this very year USA Gymnastics was insisting that the Olympic team continue to train at the very place where much of this abuse took place? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, some of this is past trauma catching up with her? > [@Chingon](#): > > Once a poster has made their point and historically is not open to change their mind, even when facing overwhelming evidence against their position, I’m not sure there’s much point in trying to engage him. At this point I’m not really speaking to him, I’m speaking to others who might be reading this thread. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You said she has suffered from this before. If so, maybe she should have quit then rather than get to the Olympics and fail herself, her team and her country. Someone with as many medals and wins in her past as Ms. Biles is in no way a failure no matter how much you want to portray her as such. Her team doesn’t seem to have a problem with her decision, why do you? As for her country… given the high percentage of mouth-breathers and idiots why should any one care what the armchair quarterbacks think? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Has a gymnast ever backed out of competing in the Olympics because of the Twisties before this? > > I can’t find an occurrence of that. [I can’t either but here’s an example of what can happen to a gymnast on a bad day.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julissa_Gomez) Given how Ms. Biles honestly has been received I very much doubt prior withdrawals due to twisties were ever publicly called that in the media before. But I would not be at all surprised if other competitors had stepped down - or been withdrawn by their coaches - for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/123 "2021-07-31T20:33:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Has a gymnast ever backed out of competing in the Olympics because of the Twisties before this? …this…doesn’t appear to be an answer to my question? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I can’t find an occurrence of that. Here is video of Olympic great Dominique Moceanu **landing on her head** while going through the same thing that Biles went through in the middle of Olympic competition. > Its already been posted in this thread, so you probably have already seen it. She was **forced** to continue in the competition by her coach. 14 years old. Tibial stress fracture. No medical attention. Made to compete in the floor minutes after. Moceanu has praised Biles. Because: > [@Moceanu](#): > > Biles demonstrates that we have a say in our own health—“a say” I NEVER felt I had as an Olympian. So why can’t you find an occurrence of that? Because the norm in competitive gymnastics (especially at the Olympic level) is to ignore gymnast agency and ignore gymnast health, and if they got injured then **so be it.** You can’t ignore the context here. You can’t ignore the brutal regime of Béla and Márta Károlyi, you can’t ignore the crimes of Larry Nasser, you can’t ignore how US Gymnastics protected these people and **didn’t protect the gymnasts**. And Biles has **been part of all of this**. Why is Biles getting praised? Because she did something that simply isn’t done because the system was set up to not let that happen. Her body was incapable of performing her routine safely, so she made the decision to withdraw. That is a **good thing**. Not a bad thing. No you won’t find many occurrences of this happening. Not in the past. Because abusive parents and abusive coaches and abusive doctors and abusive organizations didn’t allow it. But that is changing. And Biles is leading from the front. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/124 "2021-07-31T20:35:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …this…doesn’t appear to be an answer to my question? If you think everyone on the SDMB needs to be an expert in order to comment it would be the death of the SDMB. Want me to shadow every thread you respond in and demand to know if you are provably an expert and, if not, you have no business responding? Beyond that, I am free to offer my opinion. Same as you. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/125 "2021-07-31T20:40:07Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Here is video of Olympic great Dominique Moceanu **landing on her head** while going through the same thing that Biles went through in the middle of Olympic competition. > > [https://twitter.com/Dmoceanu/status/1420396388614037509](https://twitter.com/Dmoceanu/status/1420396388614037509) Fine. I have agreed many, many times in this thread that if Biles felt she cannot compete she absolutely should withdraw. My only objection is to laud her for it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/126 "2021-07-31T20:42:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you think everyone on the SDMB needs to be an expert in order to comment it would be the death of the SDMB. …I don’t actually think that everyone on the SDMB needs to be an expert in order to comment it would be the death of the SDMB. You’ve been speaking very authoritatively in this thread, offering an opinion that is at odds with every gymnast and professional athlete and expert that has spoken out about this. Yet you didn’t know the basic facts of the case. So I was wondering if you had any special insight into this that those gymnasts and professional athletes and experts didn’t have. Apparently not. Its just your opinion. Like the rest of us. Gotcha. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Want me to shadow every thread you respond in and demand to know if you are provably an expert and, if not, you have no business responding? Sure!!! > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Beyond that, I am free to offer my opinion. Same as you. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is that really subjective? I’m glad that you finally acknowledge that yes, it really is subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/127 "2021-07-31T20:45:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You’ve been speaking very authoritatively in this thread, offering an opinion that is at odds with every gymnast and professional athlete and expert that has spoken out about this. What have I said that is at odds with all of those experts? Be sure to include citations to the authorities I have ignored. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/128 "2021-07-31T20:49:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You said she has suffered from this before. If so, maybe she should have quit then rather than get to the Olympics and fail herself, her team and her country. Yet I read that nearly every gymnast has had this happen to some extent. Should _none_ ever go to the Olympics? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/129 "2021-07-31T20:51:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What have I said that is at odds with all of those experts? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am suggesting they rarely appear out of nowhere. Usually they build. She is accustomed to competing. > [@](#): > > Be sure to include citations to the authorities I have ignored. …that isn’t _quite_ how it works. You asserted that what happened to Biles “rarely appeared out of nowhere.” That they “usually build.” And implied that because “She is accustomed to competing” then she should have been able to deal with this. These appear to be extraordinary claims. Can you provide a cite that shows that the twisties don’t appear out of nowhere and that they usually build? And that by “being accustomed to competing” somehow mitigates the effect of the twisties? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/130 "2021-07-31T20:52:16Z")
I’m waiting for your citations. If you demand expert testimony, you start. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/131 "2021-07-31T20:54:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m waiting for your citations. …that’s funny. I’m waiting for yours!!! Citations have already been provided throughout the thread. So that takes us back to my original question: have you actually read any of them? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/132 "2021-07-31T20:55:17Z")
Wow…@puzzlegal and @Banquet_Bear would have it that people who compete through the twisties get seriously injured. And yet, you say most gymnasts have been through this. Weird… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/133 "2021-07-31T20:55:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Citations have already been provided throughout the thread. Where? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/134 "2021-07-31T21:00:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You asserted that what happened to Biles “rarely appeared out of nowhere.” That they “usually build.” And implied that because “She is accustomed to competing” then she should have been able to deal with this. > > These appear to be extraordinary claims. Can you provide a cite that shows that the twisties don’t appear out of nowhere and that they usually build? And that by “being accustomed to competing” somehow mitigates the effect of the twisties? Again…how many gymnasts have withdrawn from the Olympics due to the twisties? You have one person landing on their head. You didn’t even establish she had the twisties. And even if she did that is an anecdote more than evidence. A dataset of one is not really evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/135 "2021-07-31T21:06:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Where? …the thread is only 133 posts long. Remove your posts and it shouldn’t be hard to find some of them. But remember: this isn’t how this works. **You made the original assertion.** You can’t first ask me to “find something you said that was wrong” then demand that I prove to you that your cite-free analysis was wrong. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Wow…@puzzlegal and @Banquet_Bear would have it that people who compete through the twisties get seriously injured Wow. That isn’t what I said at all. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Again…how many gymnasts have withdrawn from the Olympics due to the twisties. …again: what part of: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You can’t ignore the context here. You can’t ignore the brutal regime of Béla and Márta Károlyi, you can’t ignore the crimes of Larry Nasser, you can’t ignore how US Gymnastics protected these people and **didn’t protect the gymnasts**. And Biles has **been part of all of this**. > > Why is Biles getting praised? Because she did something that simply isn’t done because the system was set up to not let that happen. Her body was incapable of performing her routine safely, so she made the decision to withdraw. That is a **good thing**. Not a bad thing. > > No you won’t find many occurrences of this happening. Not in the past. Because abusive parents and abusive coaches and abusive doctors and abusive organizations didn’t allow it. did you not understand? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You have one person landing on their head. You didn’t even establish she had the twisties. And even if she did that is an anecdote more than evidence. A dataset of one is not really evidence. An anecdote is actual evidence. Testimony is allowable in court. And the anecdote I provided is still substantially more evidence than **you’ve** provided in this thread. You’ve provided zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing. Which was why I asked if you had any special insight. This isn’t just about the twisties. Its about player agency to be able to make decisions about their health. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/136 "2021-07-31T21:06:42Z")
It’s an established pattern that it’s really important to a certain poster that he gets the last word, no matter how ignorant about the topic he might be, let’s let him and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/137 "2021-07-31T21:09:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the thread is only 133 posts long. Remove your posts and it shouldn’t be hard to find some of them. So you got nothing… > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Wow. That isn’t what I said at all. Gymnast falling on her head citation. What was that for if not to show the danger of the twisties? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And the anecdote I provided is still substantially more evidence than **you’ve** provided in this thread. You’ve provided zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing. Your anecdote didn’t even answer the question. So you were misleading. Less than zero. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/138 "2021-07-31T21:10:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Wow…@puzzlegal and @Banquet_Bear would have it that people who compete through the twisties get seriously injured. And yet, you say most gymnasts have been through this. > > Weird… They can’t play while they have the twisties, they wait until they get through it. Are you seriously this dense? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/139 "2021-07-31T21:11:08Z")
How many gymnasts have had the twisties at the Olympics? We have 125 years since the first modern Olympics. Surely there is data on this. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/140 "2021-07-31T21:12:24Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > They can’t play while they have the twisties, they wait until they get through it. Are you seriously this dense? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How many gymnasts have had the twisties at the Olympics? You just answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537/141 "2021-07-31T21:14:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So you got nothing… …actually, it’s you that’s got nothing. I seriously doubt at this stage you can remember what it is you asked me for a cite for. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Gymnast falling on her head citation. What was that for if not to show the danger of the twisties? It was actually to show you that here is an Olympic level athlete who felt she was made to compete when she didn’t feel up to it, who wished that she could have had the agency that Biles had to withdraw. It wasn’t specifically about the danger of the twisties at all. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Your anecdote didn’t even answer the question. So you were misleading. LOL. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Less than zero. This…doesn’t make any sense? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-been-the-general-reaction-to-biles-stepping-down/947537.md?page=8)