# What has Formula 1 ever done for us? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 16, 2013, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388 "2013-10-16T10:32:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/21 "2013-10-16T14:04:11Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Exactly who is spending this money and doing the research? Is it the organization or is it the contestants? If it is the contestants, then doesn’t the exact same thing happen in boat races and airplane races and other auto races? All the contestants are developing new ways to beat the previous record. I honestly know nothing about Formula One, and my question is what (if anything) makes them different from everyone else. I recall a Harvard Business Review (discussing “core competencies”). It contrasted Honda and Chrysler. Chrysler was a “car assembler” at the time, buying even engines and transmissions sometimes. Honda, by contrast, took their business seriously, and made the key auto components themselves. They also spent a lot on F1 racing, to get real-world demonstrations and tests of their cutting-edge engine technology and other technologies. If you want to see what works, what else but running a device to extremes continuously, pushing the envelope? ---
**Author:** ![BrickaBracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BrickaBracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickaBracka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/22 "2013-10-16T14:07:58Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > I’ll leave with a poorly-paraphrased anecdote. I remember watching an interview w/ an F1 engineer (may have been on TopGear). Word was that he had met w/ a serious fork in his career path that had him choosing between NASA or F1. After pondering the ins-and-outs, plusses-and-minuses, he chose a technical career in F1 over NASA. He said that if he had worked with NASA, he could have seen his labors come to life maybe once, twice, or possibly never in his career. The pace at F1 was much quicker. With the game changing every 2 weeks, he was able to dream, design, and have his talent compete many times within his career, and he found that much more satisfying. I took from that 2 things; first that he was a lucky man, but also that the efforts in winning an F1 race contribute to our world in real-time. That’s a very cool perspective… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/23 "2013-10-16T14:26:24Z")
Moved to the Game Room. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/24 "2013-10-16T15:04:37Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > No ovals. So cars that turn left and right. Hah. The Nascar fans know where you live, and will be with you shortly. Please do not leave the building. > [@BrickaBracka](#): > > Interstellar Space flight? Room Temperature superconductors? Artificial Intelligence? Adamantium? Cold fusion? Peace in the Middle East? Let’s shoot for the possible, like cold fusion. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > We could have cured cancer, but our funding was short by just exactly how much was spent trying to make a few cars go really fast. Oh the irony! How would we know? It’s not as though the amount of money required to cure cancer is a fixed quantity. > [@Keeve](#): > > Maybe there _isn’t_ any difference? Quite possibly. I was hoping there was, though! > [@somepumpkin](#): > > I think the difference is the gobs of $$. Though it was pointed-out up-thread that many of the sports have us watching millionaires using million-dollar technology, F1 does taste of wastefulness. I have been, and still am, an avid F1 (and MotoGP) fan, but at times I feel guilty for watching them burn gas, oil, and tires for my amusement. I justify it with things like **FrancisVaughan** posted, however, I still wonder where is the return on the investment. McLaren spends billions of Euros every year to chase a tenth of a second, and then Red Bull spends billions of Euros to chase the same tenth of a second + another tenth. Ferrari spends more money on the same chase, and the result after all these billions is sometimes only a fraction of a second. As \*\*Francis \*\*said, and I agree with, F1 surely contributes to our society, but I feel the greatest return on that investment is probably to make more millionaires. > > I’ll leave with a poorly-paraphrased anecdote. I remember watching an interview w/ an F1 engineer (may have been on TopGear). Word was that he had met w/ a serious fork in his career path that had him choosing between NASA or F1. After pondering the ins-and-outs, plusses-and-minuses, he chose a technical career in F1 over NASA. He said that if he had worked with NASA, he could have seen his labors come to life maybe once, twice, or possibly never in his career. The pace at F1 was much quicker. With the game changing every 2 weeks, he was able to dream, design, and have his talent compete many times within his career, and he found that much more satisfying. I took from that 2 things; first that he was a lucky man, but also that the efforts in winning an F1 race contribute to our world in real-time. That’s a very interesting story, but I’m not sure how you reach the conclusion that the efforts in winning an F1 race contribute to our world in real time. To the F1 world, I’m sure they do - the faster you can get an improvement out, the faster you start winning races. My world and (presumably) yours? I’m not so sure about that. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/25 "2013-10-16T15:26:12Z")
I don’t have any specific examples, but it’s conceivable that bits of [KERS technology](http://www.gizmag.com/go/7396/) have made their way into hybrid systems. The use of underbody panels to create a flat floor on cars ranging from the 370Z to the Prius has its roots in F1 aerodynamics. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/26 "2013-10-16T15:48:25Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > That’s a very interesting story, but I’m not sure how you reach the conclusion that the efforts in winning an F1 race contribute to our world in real time. To the F1 world, I’m sure they do - the faster you can get an improvement out, the faster you start winning races. My world and (presumably) yours? I’m not so sure about that. Interesting point you raise, and I see where you got that. No doubt that my corn-fed world is miles-away from Ross Brawn’s. One could argue that the argon-filled football mentioned above is equally as far from my world, personally. I guess I was trying to make a comment on time-to-market, rather than overall value. I was comparing it to gov’t-funded research and development that may be stymied by bureaucratic or monetary hurdles. In contrast, the seemingly-miniscule developments in F1 are implemented each week in an effort to win the next race. I wouldn’t think that the Williams team would have a new widget in their garage ready to go, but Frank would say, “well, I understand how widgetX could get us another .3 seconds through the second sector, but we should wait for the proper funding or political strategy before we use it.” Conversely, F1 teams would implement that shit right away, and resolve any repercussions at a later date. My point was that these designs and technologies are put to test immediately, and are massaged at each event to fine-tune the overall performance. But you are correct… it still takes years before it affects me personally. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/27 "2013-10-16T19:47:44Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Sure, but besides those? Sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/28 "2013-10-16T21:08:40Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I don’t have any specific examples, but it’s conceivable that bits of [KERS technology](http://www.gizmag.com/go/7396/) have made their way into hybrid systems. > > The use of underbody panels to create a flat floor on cars ranging from the 370Z to the Prius has its roots in F1 aerodynamics. That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m looking for, thanks! > [@somepumpkin](#): > > Interesting point you raise, and I see where you got that. No doubt that my corn-fed world is miles-away from Ross Brawn’s. One could argue that the argon-filled football mentioned above is equally as far from my world, personally. > > I guess I was trying to make a comment on time-to-market, rather than overall value. I was comparing it to gov’t-funded research and development that may be stymied by bureaucratic or monetary hurdles. In contrast, the seemingly-miniscule developments in F1 are implemented each week in an effort to win the next race. I wouldn’t think that the Williams team would have a new widget in their garage ready to go, but Frank would say, “well, I understand how widgetX could get us another .3 seconds through the second sector, but we should wait for the proper funding or political strategy before we use it.” Conversely, F1 teams would implement that shit right away, and resolve any repercussions at a later date. My point was that these designs and technologies are put to test immediately, and are massaged at each event to fine-tune the overall performance. But you are correct… it still takes years before it affects me personally. I suppose there is a reasonable argument that a lot of NASA-based research has made it into everyday life, almost certainly a lot more than from F1, but I also think you raise a good point about F1 perhaps being less constrained by politics. So long as the money is available, it’ll eventually make it onto a car, and if it can profitably and safely be put onto a road car, it’ll appear there sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/29 "2013-10-18T03:35:58Z")
1. It keeps me from drinkin’ too much on the late Friday Qually and Saturday Night races. Well, not really, since I got a DVR. Drink up, you sloshy bastard! 2. More reasons to hate the French! 3. Grid Girls. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/30 "2013-10-18T04:27:17Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Frankly, the same argument can be made (and even more strongly) about other spectator sports. I’d need numbers to prove this, but it is entirely possible that U.S. profession baseball/basketball/football wastes far more money than formula one. Those 100 million dollar players add up fast. Going by salaries is an irrelevance. If Jim Quarterback is paid $50,000 a year instead of $5 million, the extra money is no more or less “wasted.” It’s simply kept by the billionaire owner. In any event, it’s pretty easy to figure out what sports leagues are bigger by simply figuring out their revenue, which gives you a fairly solid idea of the money spent on the thing: NFL: $9 billion MLB: $7 billion NBA: $4 billion NHL: $3 billion In truth these numbers are probably low, as teams and leagues have reasons to understate revenues or put revenue on the books of businesses other than the teams. F1 is somewhere in the range of $1.5 to $2 billion. It’s not remotely as big. > [@](#): > > In any case, it may ‘provide entertainment’, but so do other things. In theory, if everyone got their entertainment from being mathletes, inventing stuff in their garage, or actually playing sports themselves or something, society as a whole would greatly benefit. I don’t think you realize how tautological this is. What you are saying is, in effect, that if people enjoyed different things, then they would do those things and would enjoy them. It’s like saying that if I liked chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla, I’d switch to chocolate and would like ice cream. You cannot simply dismiss the entertainment value of something (what the hell are you getting out of being on the Internet right now, exactly/) as being worth no utility. Entertainment is, in fact, worth something. Human beings need entertainment; they cannot be continuously engaged in work. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388/31 "2013-10-18T05:14:48Z")
What about NASCAR? Surely at least left-turn technology has take a huge leap forward. But seriously…IIRC, NASCAR has rules even more stringent than F-1 in terms of using a production car. What improvements has NASCAR made on production cars? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-formula-1-ever-done-for-us/671388.md?page=1)