# What has happened to my SDMB ? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 3, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171 "2003-04-03T11:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/1 "2003-04-03T11:45:29Z")
- we used to deal in facts and fight ignorance… This GD thread [US Troops kill seven women and children - Iraqi setup?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174062&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) has me somewhat disturbed. That thread saw enough “not beyond the realms of the possible”, “it might have been”, “such belief is not unfounded”, “not a huge leap of logic”, “it would be foolish not to consider such tactics as possible” - to say nothing of the _stupid_ speculation on what the Koran says and doesn’t say - to make me wonder just what board I had stumbled onto. Have we become a bunch of callous spindoctors ? This event was obviously an incredibly tragic fuckup. Seven people are dead - killed in front of their loved ones because the people they thought were there to liberate them made a mistake. I’m not so naive as to think that this doesn’t happen in war. Mistakes are made, innocents die, it’s one of the reasons war has to be a last resort. I _was_ naive enough to think that the SDMB wouldn’t instantly overflow with half-baked theories that pretty obviously are thought out to place the blame somewhere - anywhere - but on the people who made the decision to fire at the bus. To the hawks - you know who you are - just this: There will be worse mistakes than this one - there probably already has been. If you can’t stomach the thought of US troops killing civilians by mistake, then you have no business supporting this or any war. It was a given that this - or something like this - would happen. If you can’t handle that - if you have to think up convoluted explanations to blame the victims - then you’ve no business advocating war. You got your war. Now live with it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/2 "2003-04-03T11:51:57Z")
Well said that man. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/3 "2003-04-03T11:55:02Z")
There are times when GD does not read like Great Debates, but more like Gossip Around The Water Cooler. The linked thread is one example, another recent one was about that kidnapped girl who was found near Salt Lake City. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/4 "2003-04-03T12:05:08Z")
Good one, Spiny. And a sad thing it is - the necessity of your post. Let’s hope the SDMB regains its usual factual stance once this fucking war is over. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/5 "2003-04-03T12:18:11Z")
Well said, that OP. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/6 "2003-04-03T12:27:17Z")
some people flat out believe that the US military can do know wrong, and have to find a position that dosent find the military at fault. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/7 "2003-04-03T12:28:19Z")
no wrong, even… ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/8 "2003-04-03T12:38:20Z")
As a relative old-timer, of course I agree with **Spiny**. The level of genuine, informed debate has dropped alarmingly and most threads would be better placed in the IMHO forum. Sometimes that seems to be the fault of the OP, sometimes it’s the contributions – whatever it is, the general GD forum culture is not what it once was. Also, I’m not sure what it is that’s influencing so many to post new OP’s before the facts are known to even those closest to events – reading GD at the moment (and the thread linked to in this OP) is akin to reading that ticker-tape stuff CNN has move across the screen (or used to, at least, when I had a teevee). All this stuff belongs in the IMHO forum. The idea used to be to frame your view in an OP, support it with credible evidence (cites) and await counter-views. I guess in the rush to post new OP’s, people have become reliant on initial reports from the Fox network, CNN and other entertainment-led and/or transparently bias resources. Remember those stupid ‘WOMD found ! ‘ threads from last week … is it fair to blame the US teevee networks for this (instant news) cultural influence ? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/9 "2003-04-03T12:40:02Z")
Some people, when they choose the side of debate, must take that side to extremes. Once they decide they are for the war, then every bad thing in Iraq that happens _must_ be the fault of Saddam. It’s similar to when people decide they are Democrat or Republican. When a person who happens to be of their same party is in office, that man is then a saint who cannot lie nor do anything wrong or corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/10 "2003-04-03T12:41:15Z")
Thoroughly agree with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/11 "2003-04-03T13:12:00Z")
Yes, it is also unfortunate that people seem to cling to their position after it is _clearly_ shown to be misinformed/wrong/premature. Particularly those in the “Iraq has just used WMD” vein. This has always happened to some degree on the SMDB, and I think it is an integral part of human nature. However, its inadequate supression always used to be the domain of moon hoax wackos and the like. Now it seems like it is taking hold of otherwise intelligent posters. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/12 "2003-04-03T15:57:42Z")
[**But…think of the children**](http://www.phaedo.cx/archives/000123.html) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/13 "2003-04-03T16:19:23Z")
As a participant in that thread, especially the latter pages when more of the facts had come to light, I’d just like to say that it is incredibly frustrating to BE part of the SDMB when it is like that. More of this type of behavior, casually dismissing evidence, creating straw man positions, defeating a minor point in a hypothesis and claiming the entire thing is invalid, etc. can be found [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=174176). Just in case you’re into that sort of thing. It’s getting real thick in there. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/14 "2003-04-03T16:29:25Z")
Well said, **Revtim**. I am growing increasingly frustrated with people who think in black and white. (Not just here). Sometimes I feel like no one bothers to even try to see both sides anymore. I rarely find myself agreeing completely with one side or the other, politically and on many social issues, and for that I am often chastised by both sides and told I don’t have convictions. I really don’t feel like I belong with any organized group - as soon as I find something I like and agree with, that makes sense, I find out the people involved are very intolerant. (and sometimes refuse to even look at evidence that might force them to change their views!) ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/15 "2003-04-03T17:10:25Z")
**What has happened to my SDMB?** Dude, it’s not your message board. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/16 "2003-04-03T17:14:04Z")
What’s going on in GD and elsewhere on the board is just a symptom of a larger disease sweeping the nation. It’s very scary to me, and the fact that it has penetrated here is even scarier. I was listening to NPR as I was driving home last night and heard this: [http://www.npr.org/news/specials/wardiaries/rorourke/index.html](http://www.npr.org/news/specials/wardiaries/rorourke/index.html) It pretty much summed up the mood of the country for me. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/17 "2003-04-03T17:21:43Z")
vibrotronica (like that handle), I read that. ya, ya, ya Peace Institute (i.e. everybody who is antiwar)=GOOD People who don’t want to be part of the antiwar movement=BAD Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/18 "2003-04-03T17:35:54Z")
this Board is my board, this Board is your board… Its a vBB board, not a pcp board. The staff don’t get paid The hamsters get flayed this board was meant for you and me. King Rat, he meant it isn the sense of the board that he first joined and grew to love where people didn’t jump to the first conclusion that makes their opinion founded. It should be about getting facts and being able to back them up with cites, however GD has turned into a pointless War/No War, I’m right/your wrong style gossip mill. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/19 "2003-04-03T17:39:12Z")
**Spiny Norman** , I agree that there was a lot of speculation in the thread you linked to, and I would prefer to deal with facts. However, your assertion that “[the soldiers] made a mistake” is speculation as well. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171/20 "2003-04-03T17:45:25Z")
No, **King Rat** , that wasn’t my point at all. The point was that these two people were talking _past_ each other, not _to_ each other. That’s why I used that quote as the subject of my post. The debate has become so polarized that neither side thinks the other has anything useful to say. Perhaps your response helped prove my point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-happened-to-my-sdmb/166171.md?page=2)