# What has our Righties in a lather, of late? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630 "2005-06-02T22:13:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/41 "2005-06-03T00:50:18Z")
“What has our Righties in a lather, of late?” My theory is that it’s the emotional crash from the post-election euphoria. _Consider:_ You’ve got a bunch of die-hard, reality-detached Bush voters who were elated that GWB (barely) won a second term in 2004. They were convinced they had just single-handedly saved the nation – the GOP controls all of Congress, Bush was still in the White House, gays weren’t allowed to be married, surely everything would be hunky-dory and peachy-keen in no time. Except, of course, they didn’t. The nation’s still in a slow fiscal recovery, Iraq’s still a big mess and getting worse, the rest of the world still hates our guts (you know something’s _seriously_ wrong when your President gets booed at the Pope’s funeral :eek: ), gas is still expensive, and Republican politicians have overindulged in a series of post-election naked grabs for power that have skeeved off a lot of folks (Terry Schialvo, the “nuclear option,” etc.). Throw in even more embarassing revelations, such as the Downing Street Memo, gay escort models posing as reporters in the White House Press Corps, and the Koran desecration mess, and the whole thing is one big pile of The Sun Is Still Not Coming Out Tomorrow[sup][size]TM[/size][/sup]. These Bush apologists are now getting a smack of cold reality, and they don’t like it. Problem is, they’re unwilling to realize the problem is with their Boy George – since an admission that Bush and the Republicans are screwing things up would be tantamount to admit they themselves were idiots for voting for them in 2004. So, instead, cognitive dissonance takes over, and they start blaming Everyone Else[sup][size]TM[/size][/sup] instead. “Everything would be perfect if you filthy American-hating lefties would just shut up and sing _kum bi yah_ louder!”, as it were. It’s not limited to the SDMB, but neither is the SDMB exempt – ever so slowly, bit by bit, the continuing strain of supporting GWB and his team of incompetent cronies is overloading the shoulders of our Bush-apologizing berethen. Just make sure you stand clear when one of them explodes… ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/42 "2005-06-03T01:01:41Z")
As a “Rightie” (but in actuality more centrist), what has been of greatest annoyance to me is that the Left on this board isn’t satisfied to disagree with my position on an issue, instead I must personally be villified for having the unbridled temerity to think as I do, including expressions of those contrary viewpoints here. A small, but very vocal number of posters can be relied on to start a new thread about any news hiccup which is in the slightest way negatively bearing on the GOP, and on a slow day, they’ll start several threads about the same old shit. They are the same squad who has dogpiled on posters who speak anything positive about the Republican party, such that it isn’t fighting ignorance anymore, the filthy dissenting Pubbie is shouted down and eventually says, fuck this nonsense. Some who dissent with posts from the right are intelligent and articulate, keeping away from denigration of the person-the rest of the crowd should take a page from their playbook. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/43 "2005-06-03T01:22:19Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > A small, but very vocal number of posters can be relied on to start a new thread about any news hiccup which is in the slightest way negatively bearing on the GOP, and on a slow day, they’ll start several threads about the same old shit. They are the same squad who has dogpiled on posters who speak anything positive about the Republican party, such that it isn’t fighting ignorance anymore, the filthy dissenting Pubbie is shouted down and eventually says, fuck this nonsense. It’s like this. You see people point out exactly why allowing the neo cons and this administration in particular continue to run the country is a _bad idea_. Posters here, economists, politicians, foreign heads of state, etc., ad nauseum. They point to the reasons why neoconservatives in general and this administration in particular are causing serious harm to our country. “Conservatives” of all stripes hold their hands over their ears, squinch their eyes shut and scream “LALALALALALALALA!!” at the top of their lungs, and go right ahead and vote to keep these people in office. So, really, the left has absolutely no voice left in congress. And it becomes clear that you didn’t really listen for the four years when we were trying to explain just WHY re electing those doofuses was a bad idea. Therefore, we figure, if we point out just what they are doing wrong, every time they do something wrong then maybe you will see what we have been seeing all along. That it will become clear if we point this crap out over and over and over. That hopefully, you will understand why we are so angry. I mean, seriously. How long can you refuse to see what’s right in front of your faces? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/44 "2005-06-03T01:32:45Z")
Simply put, it isn’t the Republican party anymore. Ike was dead against aggression. Goldwater believed in a separation between religion and politics. Nixon believed in diplomatic solutions. In today’s climate, they would all be branded as leftists. Such people today would be denounced as traitors and drummed out of the party. Imagine what they would do to Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/45 "2005-06-03T01:42:02Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > It’s like this. > You see people point out exactly why allowing the neo cons and this administration in particular continue to run the country is a _bad idea_. Posters here, economists, politicians, foreign heads of state, etc., ad nauseum. They point to the reasons why neoconservatives in general and this administration in particular are causing serious harm to our country. > > “Conservatives” of all stripes hold their hands over their ears, squinch their eyes shut and scream “LALALALALALALALA!!” at the top of their lungs, and go right ahead and vote to keep these people in office. So, really, the left has absolutely no voice left in congress. And it becomes clear that you didn’t really listen for the four years when we were trying to explain just WHY re electing those doofuses was a bad idea. Therefore, we figure, if we point out just what they are doing wrong, every time they do something wrong then maybe you will see what we have been seeing all along. That it will become clear if we point this crap out over and over and over. That hopefully, you will understand why we are so angry. I mean, seriously. How long can you refuse to see what’s right in front of your faces? Maureen, can you understand that some folks’ views differ? You think they’re wrong. I think they’re wrong. I’m a gay pinko liberal - and you know, some folks honestly have moral objections to my being gay. I think they’re wrong. But some folks will never agree with you no matter how certain you are that you’re right, or how well-reasoned your views are. Look at some of the conservative posters who explain, time after time, with thought, logic, and knowledge, exactly why they think what you do. Do you really think learning about how Jenna Bush stuck her tongue out is gonna change **Sam Stone** ’s views? No one is saying that liberals should shut up (well, maybe a few of the right’s lunatic fringe, but no one who counts.) There’s a difference between posting thoughtfully and posting kneejerk diatribes. If you post thoughtfully, then these objections are not aimed at you. But if you interrupt other threads to say, “Bush eats babies for breakfast!” all the time, then it’s not going to help anyway. Really, though. Some people disagree with you, even after putting just as much thought into it, and just as much knowledge. That’s part of the beauty of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/46 "2005-06-03T01:42:06Z")
Xtisme is spot on with post number 30. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/47 "2005-06-03T01:49:55Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Maureen, can you understand that some folks’ views differ? You think they’re wrong. I think they’re wrong. I’m a gay pinko liberal - and you know, some folks honestly have moral objections to my being gay. I think they’re wrong. But some folks will never agree with you no matter how certain you are that you’re right, or how well-reasoned your views are. Look at some of the conservative posters who explain, time after time, with thought, logic, and knowledge, exactly why they think what you do. Do you really think learning about how Jenna Bush stuck her tongue out is gonna change **Sam Stone** ’s views? > > No one is saying that liberals should shut up (well, maybe a few of the right’s lunatic fringe, but no one who counts.) There’s a difference between posting thoughtfully and posting kneejerk diatribes. If you post thoughtfully, then these objections are not aimed at you. But if you interrupt other threads to say, “Bush eats babies for breakfast!” all the time, then it’s not going to help anyway. > > Really, though. Some people disagree with you, even after putting just as much thought into it, and just as much knowledge. That’s part of the beauty of humanity. Of course I understand it. I’m not saying that harping every twenty minutes is going to change anything. I’m simply trying to explain why the harping is happening. (At least, why _I_ think it’s happening.) In other news, and not to hijack… you’re gay? That is so totally unfair. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/48 "2005-06-03T01:54:42Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Of course I understand it. I’m not saying that harping every twenty minutes is going to change anything. I’m simply trying to explain why the harping is happening. (At least, why _I_ think it’s happening.) > > In other news, and not to hijack… you’re gay? That is so totally unfair. Unfair? Hell no, it’s FABulous 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/49 "2005-06-03T01:56:20Z")
Bitch, don’t even. It is totally unfair that just about every man I develop a crush on on these damn boards is gay. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/50 "2005-06-03T02:03:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I did switch sides. I used to be a rightwing Republican in good standing. I diagnosed the symptoms of cognitive dissonance early enough to take action. That’s how I wound up “over there”. Here’s my “qualifications”: > > Middle of the road moderate over all > Fiscal conservative (don’t break the bank or spend what isn’t there). > Social liberal, with a dash of libertarianism (government has responsibilities to the weak as well as the powerful, but should not unduly interfere with private life). > Religious laissez faire (to each his own). > Defense semi-hawk (strong on the military and defense, against preemptive or preventive strikes). > Believe morality begins with the self. > Am “pro gun” > > The current Republicans, who have claimed to be conservative are not conservative. > > They are fiscally liberal, spending like drunk sailors. Start a war, and give a tax cut to the rich. > They are social liberals in that they are interfering in private lives of citizens, and for the wrong reasons. > The chickenhawk faction (current administration) believes in the NeoConservative philosophy (preemptive war, bullying, invading but were all draft dodgers during Nam) > They are anti-science (dogma stands in the way of research, ID, anti-evolution creationist, etc) > The extreme right republican wing is christian reconstructionists or dominionists, bent on creating a theocracy based on their own heretical viewpoints and intolerant of everyone else. > They are sticking their noses in “teh gays” bedrooms and accusing them of destroying marriage and the fabric of society. One of these accusers is an admitted horse fucker (literally - Horsley - how apt). We don’t call for the execution of preachers and Republicans - they call for our execution (literally. do some searching on Rushdooney, North, Dominionist sometime). > They talk about rights and turned Terri Schiavo into a circus sideshow, and demanded a worse “judge activism” than they were supposedly fighting against. > They talk about freedom and want to deny it as much as they can (Patriot Act). > They think unlawful detainment and torture (Gitmo) is hunky dory, despite various words from the Supreme Court that it ain’t so good. > They let Bin Laden slip through their fingers, and then invaded Iraq based on outright lies. Then they tried to bury FBI and CIA reports that called bullshit on it. > > They are liars and hypocrites, and can’t even keep the lies straight. Even worse, they think we are all stupid. > > How can anyone defend them? Who are you, and how did you get INSIDE… MY… HEAD??? Seriously: we should start a political party. How does McCain-Goldwater '08 sound? ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/51 "2005-06-03T02:04:30Z")
**Excalibre** hit it on the head, as well. And he’s a liberal, which is so cool. I love liberals who are as open-minded. Heck, I admire anyone - regardless of political affiliation - who can be so understanding. WRS ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/52 "2005-06-03T02:07:57Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > **Excalibre** hit it on the head, as well. > > And he’s a liberal, which is so cool. I love liberals who are as open-minded. Heck, I admire anyone - regardless of political affiliation - who can be so understanding. > > WRS That is why I admire both Bill Clinton and George Bush. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/53 "2005-06-03T02:21:44Z")
I am not a Rightie, or a Leftie for that matter, but let me see if I can sum up the problem. Nigh upon six months ago there were a number of egregious assholes who sought to aggressively insert their political views in any number of threads. The conservative assholes were largely banned (milroyj, milum etc…). Even the most strident rightie, **Mr. Brutus** , amuses more than he attacks. The leftie assholes remained. An imbalance existed in the force. Some of the most prominent Rightie posters were controversial, but polite, well spoken and not given to hijacking non political threads (nod to SamStone and Shodan). Some of the most prominent leftie posters were not so polite or well spoken. This is not to say that debating skills or manners are inherent in ones’ political philosophy, this is just the way the cookie crumbled. **Manny** left and that opened a floodgate. Much brouhaha ensued, **rjung** didn’t help matters much by lying about what conservative posters had said in the past, and here we are today. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/54 "2005-06-03T03:02:54Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > Who are you, and how did you get INSIDE… MY… HEAD??? > > Seriously: we should start a political party. How does McCain-Goldwater '08 sound? Now that spunds like a winning ticket. Too bad Barry died 29th May, 1998. But, maybe we can “borrow” from some of his speeches. With a few tweaks (like the sample below) it would sound just fine. > [@](#): > > During four futile years, the administration which we shall replace has distorted and lost that faith. It has talked and talked and talked and talked the words of freedom. > Because of this administration we are tonight a world divided - we are a Nation becalmed. We have lost the brisk pace of diversity and the genius of individual creativity. We are plodding at a pace set by centralized planning, red tape, rules without responsibility, and regimentation without recourse. > Rather than useful jobs in our country, people have been offered bureaucratic “make work,” rather than moral leadership, they have been given bread and circuses, spectacles, and, yes, they have even been given scandals. Tonight there is violence in our streets, corruption in our highest offices, aimlessness among our youth, anxiety among our elders and there is a virtual despair among the many who look beyond material success for the inner meaning of their lives. Where examples of morality should be set, the opposite is seen. Small men, seeking great wealth or power, have too often and too long turned even the highest levels of public service into mere personal opportunity. > Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/55 "2005-06-03T03:15:03Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > The conservative assholes were largely banned (milroyj, milum etc…). . . The leftie assholes remained. ?? Zagadka banned Aldebaran banned (recently) Desmostylus banned I’m sure partisans of both sides can provide their own lists of _fill-in-the-side_ assholes who should have been banned and were not or who were not sufficiently assholish (in the partisan view) to deserve banning. Generally, it makes a difference whose ox is gored. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/56 "2005-06-03T03:21:43Z")
Was Aldebaran liberal? He seemed to hate everyone equally (?) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/57 "2005-06-03T03:25:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Was Aldebaran liberal? He seemed to hate everyone equally (?) He had a lot of hot buttons, yeh, but the “Bush” one was the hottest with the biggest bang for the smallest push. Guaranteed to get him frothing about America and Americans as monolithically (insert raving semi-coherent accusations here) on the topic of (insert trigger topic here). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/58 "2005-06-03T03:34:41Z")
And I thought Zagadka was banned for using sock puppets. Maybe I misremember. He was certainly…strident. 🙂 At any rate, I myself have seen no indications that the Mods are unfair in who they ban. There are just a lot more folks on one side of this board than the other. If one assumes the ‘asshole’ ratio is similar, and that the Mods are fair and balanced ( 😉 ) in their banning practices, then by banning an equal number of the most strident on both sides, things suddenly are looking thin on the ‘conservative’ side due to shear attrition. To put it another way, while I think we can all agree that the board is a better place without guys like milum (I actually liked Brutus…sometimes), numbers wise the ‘liberals’ could afford to lose a Zagadka much more than the ‘conservatives’ could lose a december. Again, just due to shear numbers. Personally I’d say that eventually things will swing back into balance on the board…if all the ‘conservatives’ don’t flee (I’m personally too adicted…I about went nuts for the last 4 months being out of country without my 'dope fix :)). Hopefully the really top shelf ‘conservatives’ will stick it out at least to continue to make the board and interesting place to follow. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Generally, it makes a difference whose ox is gored. ☹ And I don’t even have an ox to grind in the fight (to mix a few metaphors for fun). :eek: -XT ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/59 "2005-06-03T03:36:54Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Bitch, don’t even. It is totally unfair that just about every man I develop a crush on on these damn boards is gay. 😛 Oh dear . . . too bad we can’t meet in real life, it would help you get over it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630/60 "2005-06-03T03:52:11Z")
Look, I’m sure it’s comforting to tell yourself that the ‘pubbies’ are all a-tremble that their world view is crashing down, and that’s why they are so defensive now. The thing is, that’s utter bullshit. You wonder why not finding WMD hasn’t shaken the core of the Republicans? Because _WMD weren’t the point in the first place_. Republicans bought the WMD casus belli, because it was the best one available. Had there been no WMD argument to make, they would have just had to try to convince the rest of the country some other way. Because they think the war was a necessary step in the war on terror. If people think this war is a critical battle in a very dangerous war, then you can go on about Gitmo all you want. You can nit-pick the details around the edges, or even totally destroy the first casus belli, and it’s not going to make any difference. A large percentage of the U.S. population thinks that the left is weak on national security. They really do. Kerry should have clobbered Bush in the last election, but he couldn’t because of one thing: He was not trusted to keep the country safe. Period. Talk about the religious right all you want, but the real difference was not religion, but ‘security moms’. That means that these people disagree with _you_. That you are in a minority should give you pause to think that maybe, just maybe you’re fundamentally wrong about how to carry out the war, even if you were right that the WMD casus belli was wrong. (and I’m aware that a slight majority opposed the war in the last pre-election polls, but many of those _still_ didn’t trust the Democrats to do any better). For a personal example, in my opinion the war was simply unavoidable. It was merely a question of when, not if. Saddam had an iron grip on the country and a line of succession that had shown itself to be, if anything, worse. So the best time for all concerned is when Saddam was at his weakest. The casus belli was already there - the two countries were already officially at war, and Saddam was in constant violation of the cease-fire. The WMD argument was trotted out because the administration decided it needed to get the U.N. on its side, so it had to show a violation of U.N. treaties. The right jumped on board with the WMD because everyone likes evidence that fits in with what they want to believe. Democrats too, believe it or not. Mind you, this attitude existed before 9/11. And this is not a fringe position - this was the position of the government of the United States. The biggest anti-Saddam force in the Senate was John Kerry, who was way to the right of his own party and most Republicans on this issue. Bill Clinton made regime change official policy. Also, very muscular diplomacy was, IMO, the only way to avoid war. Saddam was only going to get into line if he could be sufficiently convinced that it was his only option. So a credible threat had to laid on Saddam. That meant parking soldiers in the Gulf in huge numbers. And once you do that, going home with anything other than the defeat of Saddam or the complete emasculation of his regime would have been seen in the Middle East as a great humiliation of America, and THAT would have been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida would ever have. Saddam would have been emboldened, and today the middle east would be a gigantic freaking mess and after withdrawing 75,000 men the U.S. would never have had the will to do it all over again in a year. Saddam would have taken advantage of that. The sanctions were also collapsing, and Saddam was ready to start his WMD program as soon as he could. Furthermore, the road to middle east peace was through Baghdad, because of the dynamic of comfortable dictators and the hatred they were breeding and shit they were disturbing in order to deflect attention from their miserable regimes. With Saddam sitting fat and happy, this situation could have continued indefinitely. And this situation is a big part of the status quo that is breeding terrorists like flies. Take Saddam down, and you do many things: First, you make Israel more secure, and a secure Israel is one which might be willing to bargain with a little more good faith with the Palestinians. Second, you get rid of a real agitator - someone who was spewing anti-Israel propaganda, paying the families of suicide bombers, and very visibly thumbing his nose at the United States, which made the U.S. look weak. Wasn’t it bin Laden who said the people will follow the stronger horse? Bin laden was winning that match. Remove Saddam, and other regimes will eventually fall. The Republicans turned out to be right about that, so it gets downplayed or the connection between the Iraq war, Libya rolling over, and Syria pulling out of Lebanon ridiculed on this board. I have no doubt today that the war was necessary, AND that the world is a much better place for its having been fought. I still believe it was the best thing for the Iraqi people, who would still be under Saddam’s thumb today - and starving - only to face an inevitable war years down the road anyway, when Saddam would be stronger and the casualties on all sides higher. Has the administration made mistakes? You bet. If you go back and read what I said before the war, I said that I _assumed_ there would be mistakes. Especially during the reconstruction phase. As I said at the time, “As a Libertarian, I don’t believe that the government is competent to run this country. WHy would I assume they’ll be competent in managing another?” The thing is, I supported the war anyway. Most Republicans still feel this way. In fact, they think they are on the ascendancy (a view I don’t share). Read some of the big conservative blogs or web sites. They’re convinced that the Democrats are being destroyed, largely because it is made up more of the kind of lefties that inhabit this board, and less of the kind of Democrats like John Kennedy, Sam Nunn, and Patrick Moynihan. They’re convinced they are going to pick up seats in the 2006 elections, and most talk about the Democrats being destroyed for a generation. I really don’t think you have them on the ropes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-our-righties-in-a-lather-of-late/306630.md?page=4)