# What has Rick Perry done to alienate conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009 "2011-09-21T00:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/41 "2011-09-22T21:21:25Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I’m not really persuaded by the argument that Perry must have meant it as a joke since people laughed. It might have been one of those “laughing at you, not with you” kind of moments. > > [Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwSH2TeR3JY) is a longer version of the audio **elucidator** linked to. It doesn’t sound to me like he’s kidding. I don’t get the sense that he’s building up to a punchline, but maybe I just don’t get his style. I never found George Carlin all that funny either, so maybe it’s me. > > Perry apparently thought the joke was funny enough to try it again. See the routine [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwSH2TeR3JY). He didn’t get any laughs there, but maybe that was a tough crowd. He got a better reaction with the material about right-wing extremist groups. That was in response to a question from the crowd, so maybe like a lot of comedians, Perry is just better at improv than scripted material. btw, those two links go to the exact same youtube link. Both with the laugh track. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/42 "2011-09-22T21:52:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > btw, those two links go to the exact same youtube link. Both with the laugh track. Ooops, sorry. Here’s what I meant for the second one: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/z5xTxcFA398/hqdefault.jpg "Rick Perry / Austin Tea Party ::: On Secession and "Right Wing Extremism"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5xTxcFA398) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/43 "2011-09-22T23:31:21Z")
John, this is one of those rare situations where being smart and reasonable can mislead you. You hear talk like that, naturally, your first thought is that he’s joking. Actually, that’s probably your second thought, your first thought being “WTF?”. And that is a perfectly reasonable thing to think, maybe the reasonable thing to think. But its Texas! Allow me a gross understatement: Texas is weird. Seriously weird. Oklahoma and Arizona send people to Texas to get advanced degrees in weird. There are thousands, perhaps millions of grown, adult people who believe this happy horseshit. Perry ain’t about to make fun of those people. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/44 "2011-09-22T23:56:00Z")
Perry looks, sounds, and acts like a populist. There are many who call themselves Conservative who are looking for someone with unwavering principles. Especially the kind of prinicples that are sinking the country right now. Perry sounds like the kind of politician who would raise taxes in order to pay our bills rather than collapse in economic ruin. I’ve heard a rumor that he secretly believes in heliocentrism too. Conservatives can’t tolerate that kind of thing. Besides the jabs at Conservatives, Perry is clearly a populist, and a lot of people are leery of another populist president from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/45 "2011-09-23T00:04:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > John, this is one of those rare situations where being smart and reasonable can mislead you. “Rare”? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/46 "2011-09-23T13:24:55Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the hypothetical views of the Founders are the law of the land. The Constitution is, and it does not allow for secession (IANAL, but I referred to [this](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20041124.html), [this](http://www.newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com/2010/02/scalia-there-is-no-right-to-secede.html), and [this](http://open.salon.com/blog/steve_klingaman/2010/04/14/secessionist_fantasies_in_bloom)). Secession is **not** “an option”. Well sure, the winners of the civil war get to make the decisions saying that secession is not an option. But, again, while the DOI is not law of the land, its principles are what started the United States. The role of any government is to preserve man’s natural rights. When a government becomes destructive to those ends, it is the right and the duty of the people to cast off that government and set up a new one. Neither Rick Perry, me, or anyone else is saying that the US has become this way and that we need to secede. But surely you would agree that if we were living in a 1984-style big brother society that it would be the right and duty of all free people to resist that tyranny. Did you frown on the people of Egypt and Libya this year for not lying down and taking the abuse? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/47 "2011-09-23T13:25:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > John, this is one of those rare situations where being smart and reasonable can mislead you. You hear talk like that, naturally, your first thought is that he’s joking. Actually, that’s probably your second thought, your first thought being “WTF?”. And that is a perfectly reasonable thing to think, maybe the reasonable thing to think. > > But its Texas! Allow me a gross understatement: Texas is weird. Seriously weird. Oklahoma and Arizona send people to Texas to get advanced degrees in weird. There are thousands, perhaps millions of grown, adult people who believe this happy horseshit. > > Perry ain’t about to make fun of those people. Oh, I have no doubt he’s playing to both ways. It’s a joke, but it still feeds into the crazies. But you gotta admit… secession had a certain appeal to it for certain posters here when GWB was president, n’est-ce pas? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/48 "2011-09-23T13:40:09Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Neither Rick Perry, me, or anyone else is saying that the US has become this way and that we need to secede. But surely you would agree that if we were living in a 1984-style big brother society that it would be the right and duty of all free people to resist that tyranny. Surely. But Perry is suggesting we are actively approaching that level of tyranny, which is nuts. He said (paraphrasing because I can’t view the video again right now), “If Washington keeps doing what it’s doing, then who knows?” If Washington keeps doing what it’s doing, then we’re not getting anywhere near Big Brother. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I have no doubt he’s playing to both ways. It’s a joke, but it still feeds into the crazies. > > But you gotta admit… secession had a certain appeal to it for certain posters here when GWB was president, n’est-ce pas? Which of those posters were running for President? Did any of them have cameras following them around all the time to share their “jokes” with the world? Which of them were governors of large states? Are we holding major politicians to the same standards as anonymous dorks on a message board? Come on. And I’m still not convinced he was joking when he made the remark to the group after his big Tea Party speech. He laughed lustily at the remark about right wing extremists, which shows me that he knows the expected response to a joke. That doesn’t match the way he acted when he said “there are a lot of scenarios” and “who knows what might happen”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/49 "2011-09-23T14:23:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I have no doubt he’s playing to both ways. It’s a joke, but it still feeds into the crazies. > > But you gotta admit… secession had a certain appeal to it for certain posters here when GWB was president, n’est-ce pas? Texas seceding still appeals to me. Better yet, we should give it back to Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/50 "2011-09-23T16:17:21Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > One of three. > > Everyone always forgets about the [Republic of Vermont](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Republic). In that case, make it ‘one of four’ and throw in California’s Bear Flag Republic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/51 "2011-09-23T16:51:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Texas seceding still appeals to me. Better yet, we should give it back to Mexico. I dunno. If a Texan ever becomes president of Mexico . . . I don’t wanna think about it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/52 "2011-09-23T20:28:38Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Surely. But Perry is suggesting we are actively approaching that level of tyranny, which is nuts. He said (paraphrasing because I can’t view the video again right now), “If Washington keeps doing what it’s doing, then who knows?” If Washington keeps doing what it’s doing, then we’re not getting anywhere near Big Brother. There is some ambiguity there. What does “keeps doing what it’s doing” mean? The status quo? Of course that doesn’t warrant secession. What if it keeps increasing intrusion on the states? If they do in the next 100 years what they did in the last 100 years, there won’t be state governments left. What if the Bush surveillance policies keep increasing? “Then who knows” doesn’t imply that we are “actively approaching” that level. It simply says that it is a possibility, which it is, and always should be. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/53 "2011-09-23T20:46:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Perry looks, sounds, and acts like a populist. There are many who call themselves Conservative who are looking for someone with unwavering principles. Especially the kind of prinicples that are sinking the country right now. Perry sounds like the kind of politician who would raise taxes in order to pay our bills rather than collapse in economic ruin. I’ve heard a rumor that he secretly believes in heliocentrism too. Conservatives can’t tolerate that kind of thing. > > Besides the jabs at Conservatives, Perry is clearly a populist, and a lot of people are leery of another populist president from Texas. Perry actually got into politics as a populist. After graduating A&M without grades good enough for Vet school, he tried the USAF for a while. Then returned to Haskell to help out on his father’s cotton farm until something better turned up. (No “job creator” he.) > [@](#): > > Escape came in a strange form. Soon after Rick returned to Haskell, a grassroots, populist organization called the American Agriculture Movement started mobilizing strikes and demonstrations against the 1977 federal Food and Agriculture Act, which many felt had set commodity prices so low that farmers couldn’t stay in business. It was an electric time, when Haskell seemed on fire with protest. “People went crazy,” Overton remembers. “People would call their neighbors saying, ‘You don’t agree to keep your crops off the market, we’ll burn them.’” The movement culminated in a rally in Washington. Dozens of Haskell County farmers made the weeks-long trip to attend on their tractors. > > Lane was making his own trips to Washington in those days, lobbying members of the Senate Agriculture Committee. At first, Lane brought Ray Perry with him. After a couple of visits, Ray sent Rick in his place. Eventually he got elected to the Texas House of Representatives, running as a Democrat in an overwhelmingly Democrat community. Until things changed again: > [@](#): > > In 1989, Perry, then in his third term as a state rep, wanted to run for state agriculture commissioner. But the Democratic spot on the ticket was already taken by incumbent Jim Hightower. (Hightower is a former editor of The Texas Observer.) Around that time, Perry met another ambitious Texas politician—U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm—who encouraged him to switch sides. He didn’t leave the Democrats because of political convictions–but because he wanted power & a better paying job. (From [The Boy From Haskell](http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-boy-from-haskell), part of The Texas Observer’s continuing attempt to let the country know about\* this\* Texas Governor with aspirations. After all, Molly warned everybody about Shrub!) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/54 "2011-09-26T14:20:48Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > One of three. > > Everyone always forgets about the [Republic of Vermont](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Republic). One of four. There’s also Hawaii (admittedly, some Republicans have forgotten that it is a part of the United States that is an island – I guess they just aren’t making them as smart as Dan Quayle anymore). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/55 "2011-09-26T14:34:29Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > One of four. There’s also Hawaii. Texas, Hawaii, Vermont, and ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/56 "2011-09-26T14:48:22Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Texas, Hawaii, Vermont, and ? California. We still sometimes call ourselves the Bear Flag Republic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/57 "2011-09-26T15:13:38Z")
Don’t forget [West Florida.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Florida#Republic_of_West_Florida) (On second thought, forget West Florida, everybody else does.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/58 "2011-09-26T15:51:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > California. We still sometimes call ourselves the Bear Flag Republic. I’d call the claim to have been an independent Republic perhaps a bit iffy. From Wiki: > [@](#): > > The participants declared independence from Mexico, but they did not form a functional provisional government. Thus, the “republic” never exercised any real authority, and it was never recognized by any nation. In fact, most of Alta California knew nothing about it. The revolt lasted 26 days, at the end of which the U.S. Army arrived to occupy the area. Once the leaders of the revolt knew the United States was claiming the area, they disbanded their “republic” and supported the U.S. federal effort to annex Alta California. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/59 "2011-09-26T16:07:58Z")
[http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm](http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm) Well there was the 1982 secession and declaration of war by the Conch Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009/60 "2011-09-26T16:14:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Don’t forget [West Florida.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Florida#Republic_of_West_Florida) (On second thought, forget West Florida, everybody else does.) I’d say this claim is a bit more solid than the Bear Flag Republic’s one. From your link: > [@](#): > > The Constitution of West Florida was based largely on the United States Constitution, and divided the government into three branches: executive, judicial, and legislative. The legislature consisted of a Senate and House of Representatives. The Governor was chosen by the legislature. According to the constitution, the official name of the nation was the “State of Florida”. The first and only governor was Fulwar Skipwith [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-rick-perry-done-to-alienate-conservatives/597009.md?page=4)