# What has the Trump-for-President social experiment taught us? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212 "2016-08-09T01:29:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/21 "2016-08-09T13:36:35Z")
> [@Mr.Lebodnik](#): > > One lesson is that if the leftist media (the vast majority of the media, BTW) don’t like you, you don’t have a chance. > They will barrage the public with unfavourable reports on you on a daily basis. They will twist everything against you. They will quote you out of context. They will minimize reporting on your opponents failings. This is essentially correct. But this year, it’s an unhelpful observation. Because the current candidate from the Right already creates unfavorable reports of his own accord, says and does things that do not need to be twisted to be used against him, and whose quotes _in context_ are absurd. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/22 "2016-08-09T13:46:23Z")
It didn’t necessarily teach this, but certainly reaffirmed it. There’s some real whores working in the media. I don’t remember the exact number, but media outlets were giving Trump more free air (and web) time than they were giving to all other `Pubs combined. They knew he was spouting garbage and was a possible detriment to society, but they wanted the viewers so badly, they sold themselves (and to some extent, the viable Republican candidates) out. And now the media can’t help it… he’s a real player now; he can’t be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/23 "2016-08-09T14:02:05Z")
It has shown me what will happen when the current crop of narcissists tries to run for elected office! Amazing that these people will tell their own party big shots to go fly a kite. Even more amazing that people will support someone like this. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/24 "2016-08-09T14:18:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Half of the American populace is below average in intelligence? ``` Intelligence might not be the deciding factor here. Many of the working class including myself are not so well informed. Many of us have a distinct feeling that the educated have put themselves in a position of superiority over the working class. This has caused a huge division. The liberal parties have pandered themselves away to every monirity cause they can identify and have a huge following of uneducated ignorant voters themselves many of whom are simply looking for handouts. The working class conservatives resent this and have reached a point they just want to fight back and are looking for a champion to their cause. I am an openly anti trump conservative yet I do sympathise with many Trump supporters as they see him as their only hope. ``` ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/25 "2016-08-09T14:34:02Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > the short lesson is that a lot of people are basically tired of both parties presenting a long series of “same old” candidates. I think that’s true, and going a bit further, I think there’s a lot of fatigue with the “same old” politician behavior as well. I’m convinced that no small part of Trump’s popularity is due to the fact that he’s saying controversial and inflammatory stuff at all, and that he’s unrepentant as well. This is pretty much 180 degrees off from the normal politician method of being very cautious and oblique about what they say, so that they can’t be pinned down later. The other lesson is that politics in the modern age is more about being a media personality than it is about being a traditional, policy and legislation centered politician. Good looks, stage presence and an assiduously cultivated public persona go a lot further than well reasoned, carefully considered positions on policies and issues. We should have seen this coming with actor-politicians and athlete-politicians, but prior to the 24-hour news cycle and the advent of the Internet, even those guys had to be somewhat competent on the issues. Nowadays, one candidate can get up and give a well reasoned, if boring speech about the necessity of trade agreements, and their opponent can go on Twitter and say that they’re wrong and stupid, and put a little emoji of a turd in the tweet, and that guy will get as much or more media coverage as the person who gave the speech. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/26 "2016-08-09T14:38:41Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Many of us have a distinct feeling that the educated have put themselves in a position of superiority over the working class. In what context? I get the rest of it, even if I don’t agree. But in what context do you think the educated (not rich, educated) have put themselves in a position of superiority? Higher positions of authority in employment? Higher pay, with all that comes with it? Claiming to have higher moral values - do they claim that’s _because_ of education - do you claim to have higher moral values than them? Intrinsically higher worth? Believe their opinions worth more weight? Are these opinions where they should have more weight (like a doctor’s opinion on medical matters) or positions where they shouldn’t (like an engineer’s opinion on medical matter)? I actually think anti-intellectualism is a big problem. Experts get ignored because what they say isn’t popular or because they aren’t charismatic. You aren’t supposed to “show off” being smart (showing off being athletic is fine). Kids, especially boys, don’t want to make all 'A’s. I think we need to have experts and need to balance that with populism. Some positions we have a popular vote on, and some positions get appointed from those with relevant experience. The issue is which should be which. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/27 "2016-08-09T15:14:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Political parties take democratic process remarkably seriously. Many speculated that the GOP establishment would never allow Trump to be the nominee and would devise some way to deny him nominee status, yet the GOP leadership largely acquiesced and shrugged, “He got the most votes in the primaries, so even though he’s a buffoon and a terrible person, the process says he gets to be the nominee so we got to honor the process.” In doing so, the GOP demonstrated that it honors the process to a remarkable extent - it’s hard to think of a more severe test of a party’s commitment to the “process” than this. I don’t think this had anything to do with taking the democratic process seriously or not. The GOP establishment figured that ditching Trump would lead to an equally bad loss without actually getting rid of the problem. Their choices were let Trump lose or let Trump make sure whoever they nominate goes down in flames. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/28 "2016-08-09T15:21:53Z")
Here is how I see it. Many of you probably disagree. The establishment of both parties follow closely their wishes of their true constituents. And who are their true constituents? The ones who get them elected. Not their votes, but their money. Both parties are in thrall to the big money boys who control the electoral process. It is why Hillary won’t release the transcipts of her speeches. We can assume that she gave them assurances that many voters would not be happy with. (Don’t worry; I will be voting for her anyway, but that doesn’t mean I am happy to. Although it would be nice to see the glass ceiling shattered.) The big two parties are bought and paid for by wall street and there is not much more to day. Yes, the Trump voters are falling for the lies of a guy who lies like he breathes. And he would be a disaster. He hasn’t actually promised anything that would help them, but he rants about what they rant about and that seems to be enough for them. Even if Bernie had run and won, what could he do about a recalcitrant congress? That’s why the Koch bros and other big money boys are concentrating on congress this time around. They have given up on Trump, but they know that congress passes the budget, sets tax rates and does all the things that are important to them. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/29 "2016-08-09T15:33:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Some people will vote for ANYONE as long as they’re Republican, or at least not Democrat. Furthermore, people will vote for 1955 whenever it’s promised. As Trump has been doing in general, and just doubled down on in his “economics speech.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/30 "2016-08-09T16:50:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Intelligence might not be the deciding factor here. Many of the working class including myself are not so well informed. Many of us have a distinct feeling that the educated have put themselves in a position of superiority over the working class. This has caused a huge division. The liberal parties have pandered themselves away to every monirity cause they can identify and have a huge following of uneducated ignorant voters themselves many of whom are simply looking for handouts. The working class conservatives resent this and have reached a point they just want to fight back and are looking for a champion to their cause. > > ``` > I am an openly anti trump conservative yet I do sympathise with many Trump supporters as they see him as their only hope. > > ``` I don’t. They deserve no sympathy. If their response to being marginalized for stupid ideas is to even further defend those ideas, then these are not people who deserve to participate in polite society. There is absolutely nothing stopping these people from changing their ways, admitting fault, and voting Democrat. Nothing. Some part of our lizard brains should trigger when someone tells you they want to attack, ban, or deport anyone who’s different from you because of skin color or ethnicity, these things cannot be changed and nobody gets to pick theirs. What a fucking joke it is to play up our differences based on things none of us picked! The working class is well represented by liberal unions, by liberals fighting for civil rights, by liberals who want the government to work for the needy and the poor, not the rich who need no additional help. There is no rational reason anyone who is poor should ever vote for the GOP yet they do, in droves, because of their white skin? Because of shared European ancestry? Because they think these leaders will selfishly make them richer by kicking out anyone with a skin tone more than a standard deviation shade darker? Deep down, I cannot believe they don’t know its wrong and they just don’t care because they are selfish. So no sympathy from me, they made their own bed and now they get to lie in it. And if somehow Trump does win and turns America into shit? They won’t blame themselves! They’ll blame someone else, as always ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/31 "2016-08-09T17:01:54Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > There is no rational reason anyone who is poor should ever vote for the GOP yet they do, in droves It’s precisely this kind of condescending “You don’t know what’s good for you” talk-down that has triggered a lot of backlash. It reminds me of an article I read not long ago, written by an African-American supporter of Hillary, about how he was tired of Bernie supporters claiming that black people are uninformed by supporting Hillary, rather than the “true” supporter of black folks, Bernie. Poor people may indeed have a rational reason for voting GOP. Maybe they work in the coal industry and think that the Republicans are more likely to revive that industry than the Democrats. Maybe they indeed believe the “illegal immigrants will take our jobs” narrative (whether it is true or not is a different matter, but if they believe it to be true, then their reasons for voting GOP are rational.) Maybe they work in a specific industry, trade or profession that is likely to suffer adverse effects from a Democratic administration than a Republican one. This “Poor people don’t know what’s good for them” argument is condescending, arrogant, and rarely wins people over. I’m not saying this as an attack on \*you \*, **Yogsothoth** , but rather that you are just echoing a condescending talk-down narrative in the media and society that does not have the desired effect. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/32 "2016-08-09T17:05:53Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Some people believe a woman cannot be President because the Bible says so. Do you have that verse at hand? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/33 "2016-08-09T17:24:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s precisely this kind of condescending “You don’t know what’s good for you” talk-down that has triggered a lot of backlash. It reminds me of an article I read not long ago, written by an African-American supporter of Hillary, about how he was tired of Bernie supporters claiming that black people are uninformed by supporting Hillary, rather than the “true” supporter of black folks, Bernie. > > Poor people may indeed have a rational reason for voting GOP. Maybe they work in the coal industry and think that the Republicans are more likely to revive that industry than the Democrats. Maybe they indeed believe the “illegal immigrants will take our jobs” narrative (whether it is true or not is a different matter, but if they believe it to be true, then their reasons for voting GOP are rational.) Maybe they work in a specific industry, trade or profession that is likely to suffer adverse effects from a Democratic administration than a Republican one. > > This “Poor people don’t know what’s good for them” argument is condescending, arrogant, and rarely wins people over. I’m not saying this as an attack on \*you \*, **Yogsothoth** , but rather that you are just echoing a condescending talk-down narrative in the media and society that does not have the desired effect. Plenty of poor people know what’s good for them, only the ones who vote for the GOP don’t. It’s not condescension, it’s truth. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/34 "2016-08-09T17:36:41Z")
> [@Mr.Lebodnik](#): > > One lesson is that if the leftist media (the vast majority of the media, BTW) don’t like you, you don’t have a chance. > They will barrage the public with unfavourable reports on you on a daily basis. They will twist everything against you. They will quote you out of context. They will minimize reporting on your opponents failings. I take it the rightist media doesn’t do anything like that, correct? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/35 "2016-08-09T17:45:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Donald Trump running for president was a social experiment on a national scale, what lessons or conclusions can we draw from it? > > \*\*Many people mistake arrogance for confidence. \*\* Confidence is a highly attractive trait. Unfortunately, many people mistake arrogance for confidence (the well-documented “Why are bad guys attractive” phenomenon) and so this is why Trump has that charisma, or at least apparently still did, to his voting base, as recently as a couple of months ago. Only for the male. For Hillary and most females, confidence (or even, God Forbid, “ambition”) is too often seen as arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/36 "2016-08-09T17:55:44Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Do you have that verse at hand? 1 Timothy 2:12 > [@](#): > > But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/37 "2016-08-09T17:59:37Z")
“Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.” In my opinion, Trump’s success is an indication that this right-wing mantra has taken root, to the extent that people (especially right-wingers) distrust _all_ government officials and career politicians. It’s no longer enough for a politician to preach for smaller government (esp. since the last Republican President greatly _expanded_ the government). You have to be a non-politician to appeal to these people. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/38 "2016-08-09T18:00:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > 1 Timothy 2:12 I think that’s in the context of a church. Deborah once led Israel. (Judges 4 and 5) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/39 "2016-08-09T18:04:38Z")
This election has also demonstrated the mirror-imaging fallacy: Many people argue that Trump is unfit for the presidency because he’s inexperienced, loud-mouthed, a bully, and says what is on his mind. But they assume that others think like them, when in fact many people think Trump is fit for the presidency \*because \*he is inexperienced, loud-mouthed, a bully, and says what is on his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212/40 "2016-08-09T18:21:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Only for the male. For Hillary and most females, confidence (or even, God Forbid, “ambition”) is too often seen as arrogance. I think the word you’re looking for is “bitchiness.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-has-the-trump-for-president-social-experiment-taught-us/762212.md?page=3)