# What historical events have slipped down the memory hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 13, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478 "2022-12-13T19:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/61 "2022-12-17T03:28:13Z")
I was surprised to learn that Zurich, Switzerland is believed to be one of the longest continuously-occupied cities on earth, going back to 3,000BC or even earlier. And Squanto didn’t learn English from the people on the Mayflower; he had lived in England for some time. He just happened to be there when the Mayflower arrived. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/62 "2022-12-17T04:09:39Z")
Another big yawn. No big reveals there. You mentioned your belief in a conspiracy theory about the Las Vegas massacre, so it may be that you tend to believe in them, but all the ink and pixels wasted speculating about whoever in the government secretly has JFK killed, or whatever other theory you may have, just doesn’t seem to have happened. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/63 "2022-12-17T13:04:41Z")
It is publicly known in the US that some Japanese American were held in internment camps during World War II. What is less well known is that some German American and Italian Americans were held in camps as well. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment\_of\_Italian\_Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Italian_Americans) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment\_of\_German\_Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans) ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/64 "2022-12-17T13:48:34Z")
The 1918 pandemic is certainly discussed more in recent years (AIDS, Covid, etc. may account in part for that), but it was mostly forgotten for many decades after it happened. For a devastating event that affected 1/3 of the world’s population and killed \>50-million, it’s puzzling it was not discussed for so long. These articles give reasons: > **[Why the 1918 Flu Became 'America's Forgotten Pandemic'](https://www.history.com/news/1918-americas-forgotten-pandemic)** > > After the deadly pandemic was over, no one really wanted to talk about it—and besides, there was so much else going on. [Why historians ignored the Spanish flu](https://theconversation.com/why-historians-ignored-the-spanish-flu-101950#:~:text=But%20perhaps%20the%20most%20important%20reason%20is%20that%2C,pandemic%3F%20The%20answer%20appears%20to%20be%20around%201968). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/65 "2022-12-17T14:52:38Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Another big yawn. No big reveals there. > > You mentioned your belief in a conspiracy theory about the Las Vegas massacre, so it may be that you tend to believe in them, but all the ink and pixels wasted speculating about whoever in the government secretly has JFK killed, or whatever other theory you may have, just doesn’t seem to have happened. I’d been blissfully ignorant of any CTs about the Vegas shootings. Of course I assumed there were such; there always are since grifting the rubes is sooo profitable. Anyhow, wiki has this to say on the topic: > **[2017 Las Vegas shooting | Misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting#Misinformation,_fake_news,_and_conspiracy_theories)** > > Following the shooting, misinformation and fake news about the shooter's identity and motive went viral on social media: > 1.A 4chan /pol/ thread, which misidentified the shooter and described him as a registered Democrat, was briefly featured in the "Top Stories" section of a Google search for the shooter's name. This was further circulated by a number of websites, including being shared briefly on The Gateway Pundit | > 2.The fake news website Your News Wire spread false information about a secon... Which interestingly includes nothing about what @nearwildheaven alluded to earlier: some involvement with classified government material. So I’m torn between wanting to know what wacky BS they were referring to, but also not wanting to launch a CT hijack in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/66 "2022-12-17T20:31:48Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > I believe these events form a more interesting foundation myth for the US than the endless repetition of the trials and tribulations of a few Puritans who considered freedom of religion being the right to hang Quakers. I can’t think of any reason why Socorro, Alburquerque, and Sante Fe would be considered part of our national foundation myths. The American colonies that would eventually become the United States rebelled against Great Britan and the king of England not the king of Spain. The fact that the prodominent language was English and not Spanish is another good indiciation of why Sante Fe isn’t part of our foundational myth. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/67 "2022-12-17T20:37:47Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Umm, waitaminnit, Articles of Confederation? > > Well, yes, but that didn’t work out so well so we replaced it with the Constitution… I saw this one in some book on how to win obscure bar bets. Poor John Hanson, mostly forgotton. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And Squanto didn’t learn English from the people on the Mayflower; he had lived in England for some time. He just happened to be there when the Mayflower arrived. Squanto’s story is a great example of something we’d call “bullshit” on if he showed up in a work of fiction. So you’re telling me these colonist just happen to run into some dude who spent some time in England, speaks their language, and can also speak the language of a few other native groups in the area? This is just stretching my suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/68 "2022-12-17T21:36:18Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can’t think of any reason why Socorro, Alburquerque, and Sante Fe would be considered part of our national foundation myths. The American colonies that would eventually become the United States rebelled against Great Britan and the king of England not the king of Spain. The fact that the prodominent language was English and not Spanish is another good indiciation of why Sante Fe isn’t part of our foundational myth. What about New York City? That was founded 20 years before Boston, too. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/69 "2022-12-17T22:36:28Z")
That is an oddity. New Amsterdam was already a good-sized city when we stole it from the Dutch. American popular culture rarely tells stories about the early years of the settlement. New York sprang into existence, from the forehead of Zeus, fully grown. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/70 "2022-12-17T22:47:45Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can’t think of any reason why Socorro, Alburquerque, and Sante Fe would be considered part of our national foundation myths. Maybe not part of our “foundational myths” in the sense of what was specifically part of the country when the DoI was signed, but certainly part of our foundational myths in the sense of, “This is what the country is now; how did we get here?” FWIW, the history of Spanish colonization of North America is very much not memory holed if you grew up in the west, at least in my experience. We spent a lot of time in grade school learning about the Mission system, and there’s currently a fight going on over places named after Father Junipero Serra, who it turns out was kind of a shit to the locals. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/71 "2022-12-17T23:06:11Z")
[Boston Molasses Disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/72 "2022-12-17T23:10:51Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > What is less well known is that some German American and Italian Americans were held in camps as well. I thought everyone in my generation read “Summer of My German Soldier”, or at least saw the T.V. movie with Kristy McNichol. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/73 "2022-12-17T23:32:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What about New York City? That was founded 20 years before Boston, too. What about it? Most of us speak English rather than Dutch which I think is an excellent clue as to why New Amsterdam isn’t part of the national foundation myth. But if you can make a case for why it should be along with Jamestown and the Mayflower, I’m all ears. > [@Miller](#): > > Maybe not part of our “foundational myths” in the sense of what was specifically part of the country when the DoI was signed, but certainly part of our foundational myths in the sense of, “This is what the country is now; how did we get here?” I think you might have a different definition of foundational than I do. I hear foundational and I think origins, and Sante Fe doesn’t really belong in the origin story of the United States. > [@Miller](#): > > FWIW, the history of Spanish colonization of North America is very much not memory holed if you grew up in the west, at least in my experience. We spent a lot of time in grade school learning about the Mission system, and there’s currently a fight going on over places named after Father Junipero Serra, who it turns out was kind of a shit to the locals. I went to school in Texas, and we covered the encomienda system in high school. But it’s been so long I don’t remember what I learned then and what I learned a few years later in college. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/74 "2022-12-17T23:32:53Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Boston Molasses Disaster The sweetest of disasters. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/75 "2022-12-17T23:33:24Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Boston Molasses Disaster Amen. When I did a report on this in grade school, the teacher said it sounded like it was a folk tale. Another: a 1900 college football game results in the deadliest accident at a sporting event in U.S. history: [Thanksgiving Day Disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_Day_Disaster) ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/76 "2022-12-17T23:57:21Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Another: a 1900 college football game results in the deadliest accident at a sporting event in U.S. history: [Thanksgiving Day Disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_Day_Disaster) And I thought everyone associated the Detroit Lions with the Thanksgiving Day disaster. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/77 "2022-12-18T01:26:31Z")
What I find interesting is how the events we do know have been recast into something else entirely. A great example to me is American capitalism. It is branded as the epitome of self-made exceptionalism, names like Rockefeller, Ford, Gates, and JP Morgan taught to us at an early age. A nation forged from the determination and grit of _men_, free from tyranny and government intervention (until 1932), built on the principle of self reliance. And yet… and yet… It’s not that way at all. Dig deeper and you effectively find that the American government(s) exist to create markets as to funnel public money into private hands. The Erie Canal was the first true example of this, as it was successfully promoted by a man in prison for debt, [Jesse Hawley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Hawley_(merchant)). Jesse realized that only government investment would have saved his business, and others… seeing the opportunity for financial gain as well (especially in construction)… began to lobby the State of New York (and Dewitt Clinton) for the canal. They succeeded, and the rest, as they say, is history. From the railroads receiving hundreds of thousands of acres of free land to John Rockefeller owning the PA State legislator to the development of the aircraft/computer/oil/financial/etc industries, using the power of government is _the_ proven path to creating billions in wealth. As I mentioned in another thread, my parents were unwitting beneficiaries of such a process. Because another company took an issue to the Supreme Court, and won, my parents sleepy little telephone directory distribution company rose to be the third largest in the industry. And then they lost it because the government also funded a shitload of the technology which, over 60+ years, became the iPhone. And so it goes. And we are taught this, in schools - I don’t think I’ve mentioned anything truly ‘unknown’ in the above - and yet our conceptualization of what happened (which we are taught) is completely different from what actually happened (which we too are taught). Anyway, you want to become a billionaire, use lawyers to take advantage of the government. Become Sears & Roebuck using the subsidized mail system. Become ATT and the Kingsbury Agreement _and_ Bell Labs. Become Wilbur and Orville Wright, getting $70k of research _free_ from the Smithsonian Institute to invent your plane. Become IBM and get those sweet, sweet, Nazi bucks. Well, perhaps not that last. But if you want millions or billions in America, get some lawyers and have some minor laws changed in your favor. And don’t worry about that “self-made, small government” bullshit. That’s not how the game is played. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/78 "2022-12-18T01:40:49Z")
Can you say “SpaceX”? I knew you could. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/79 "2022-12-18T02:19:48Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I think you might have a different definition of foundational than I do. I hear foundational and I think origins, and Sante Fe doesn’t really belong in the origin story of the United States. Well that’s just it: traditional “American History” taught in grade schools focused on how the United States of America came to be founded and eventually control a major portion of the the North American continent. As such most such grade school history had a heavily Anglo-American nationalist focus, with everything else treated as incidental or a dead-end to USA history; and as a result the history texts tended to skip from Columbus directly to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock. At most they used to devote a few pages to the Conquistadores and explorers like de Soto and Coronado. Saint Augustine got basically a trivia question citation. If you lived in the Upper Midwest you got some overview of New France, French fur traders, explorers and missionaries, and the many francophone place names preserved there as far west as the Missouri river. To properly explain how English-speaking peoples eventually colonized the New World would require at least an entire chapter in the history texts, but this would have to focus as much or more on European history between 1492 and 1607 as American. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478/80 "2022-12-18T02:33:42Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > > [@dorvann](#): > > > > What is less well known is that some German American and Italian Americans were held in camps as well. > > I thought everyone in my generation read “Summer of My German Soldier”, or at least saw the T.V. movie with Kristy McNichol. Nitpick: “Summer of My German Soldier” is about an actual P.O.W. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-historical-events-have-slipped-down-the-memory-hole/976478.md?page=5)