# What I learned at school today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284 "2004-04-16T01:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/81 "2004-04-19T22:13:20Z")
> [@ContumeliousBob](#): > > The animals eh? Animals eat their young. DANG! We just solved world hunger and adoption problems! We can feed people with babys and children! > > Does anyone know why people who are gay become gay to begin with? > > Why would anyone choose to be gay? > > I will never approve of the homosexual lifestyle. It’s a good thing that gay rights don’t ride on your approval. And another thing. When one finds oneself in a hole, it is best to stop digging. Robin ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/82 "2004-04-19T22:17:20Z")
Bob, you’re becoming even less coherent. One might even suspect you were foaming at the mouth. It’s not making your argument any more convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/83 "2004-04-19T22:17:48Z")
> [@ContumeliousBob](#): > > Does anyone know why people who are gay become gay to begin with? Why would anyone choose to be gay? For the free toaster? Seriously though, these are excellent questions. Given the extreme level of social stigma attached to homosexuality even in these “enlightened times”, why the hell would anybody _deliberately_ become homosexual? And having done so, why wouldn’t they “switch back” when things became rough? Maybe – just maybe – it’s because IT’S NOT A FREAKIN’ CHOICE! Just a thought. > [@](#): > > I will never approve of the homosexual lifestyle. IANAH, but I feel certain that your refusal to approve of them weighs heavily on the hearts and minds of the homosexual community. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/84 "2004-04-19T22:26:43Z")
> [@ContumeliousBob](#): > > I will never approve of the homosexual lifestyle. Me neither. Appletinis and the worship of Judy Garland. It’s sick! Sick I tell you! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/85 "2004-04-19T22:35:36Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Me neither. Appletinis and the worship of Judy Garland. It’s sick! Sick I tell you! On the bright side, there _is_ that special discount at Ikea… ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/86 "2004-04-20T14:59:16Z")
So, **Contumelious Bob** , are you ever going to get around to answering the questions that have been put forth to you, or are you just going to keep getting further and further away from the point at hand? Knowing now would save a lot of people a lot of time, and I’m all about time management. And your asinine little pissiness has been done much better by Swift. Certain things shouldn’t be tampered with. And babies **are** children, schmuck. And even though it’s been pointed out to you previously, I get the feeling that you need it hammered home repeatedly. In that spirit: Nobody chooses to be gay. Just as you did not choose to be straight. Read those two previous sentences until a light begins to dawn. Then read them a few more times just to be sure. Waste ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/87 "2004-04-21T01:02:26Z")
> [@ContumeliousBob](#): > > If homo-sexuality is genetic, it is a flaw. The basic goal of life is to reproduce. A lot of energy is expended by all living things to achieve this. Is the basic goal of life to reproduce? How do you mean “goal”? This is as confusing to me as your earlier use of the word “duty.” You seem to be deliberately confusing too separate things: biological drive and moral imperative. Charles Darwin did not come down off Mount Sinai with _The Origin of Species_ inscribed on clay tablets. They are not the Tao-Te-Ching. Competition and reproduction aren’t meant to be recipes for better living, but rather an observation of a neutral biological process. It has no moral weight. If by “goal” you mean “instinct to reproduce through heterosexual sex,” then you would be wrong in my case. If by “goal” you mean “moral purpose,” then you would be hard-pressed to prove that. I don’t think my purpose is to reproduce, though YMMV. Is it a “flaw”? In a strictly biological sense, _maybe_. Then again, as mentioned by me and by another poster, there are ways where even homosexuality could be useful – the Uncle Effect for example. People who use Darwin as a club in moral debates frequently have the most incredibly simplistic view of the actual biological process involved. From beta wolves to worker ants, nature is full of creatures whose inability to reproduce is an aid to, not a barrier to, the passing down of their genes. > [@](#): > > People are thinking animals. Because people can think, people have different ideas of what their ideal mate is. The majority of people are in some way attracted to the opposite sex. Are you seriously making the argument that morality should be defined by conformity? Have I misunderstood you? Do you believe that “most people do it that way” means “most people should do it that way”? > [@](#): > > Just because you can do something does not make it right. And just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it wrong. Explain to this neo-pagan here _what exactly makes it wrong_. My religion has no injunction against homosexuality. My definition of morality depends on harm caused to others, and there is none in this case. > [@](#): > > So homosexuals will save the day because they wont flood the earth with spawn? People come up with solutions to all sorts of problems, overpopulation doesnt relate to whether or not to approve of homosexuals. I agree. But if you’re going to make a half-assed argument confusing biology and morality, I should be allowed to do the same. > [@](#): > > Your “recent” study is on [365gay.com](http://365gay.com), so I doubt the credibility of that source. My recent study was _reported_ on [365gay.com](http://365gay.com). It was done by a university. If you have reason to believe that the reporting was bogus, why not email someone at California State University and ask them? > [@](#): > > There are apparently a lot of websites where men can hook up with each other to have ‘hot’ man sex with each other. Apparently a guy who was vehemently opposed to gay marraige was using a website too hook up with other men, and was caught by the local media at a motel waiting for the rendezvous. Yup, you’re right. There are websites for gay men to hook up for sex. But there are several problems here. Firstl, This does not mean that gay men are more promiscuous than straight men. I suspect an awfully large number of heterosexual men would be using similar sites if women were as willing to put out. Secondly, you’re making a gross generalization. I know straight men and straight women who are more promiscuous than my own boring, old-fashioned self. Making assumptions about a whole group because you happen to find some websites belonging to some of them is bizarre. They are not a representative sample. Thirdly, your example of the anti-gay-marriage advocate who was using the Internet presents another reason for the hook-up sites: some gay men are so terrified to admit the truth to a world filled with homophobic bigots, that they hide and repress themselves until they can’t anymore, and then they go out for sex. These are the men who list “discreet encounters” in personal ads. Fourthly, it’s a confusion of the issue. Even _if_ we were all slavering lust-monkeys screwing each other silly at the drop of a hat, it wouldn’t be a moral issue one way or another. There’s no harm involved. Fifthly, why should the actions of promiscuous gay men be an argument against monogamous gay men (or lesbians, who are suspiciously absent from your tirade) from marrying? ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/88 "2004-04-21T03:06:06Z")
Well, I don’t think the significant issue is homosexuality but rather that many learned that freedom of speech and assembly are fundamental rights in America, for now anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/89 "2004-04-21T10:50:46Z")
> [@county](#): > > Well, I don’t think the significant issue is homosexuality but rather that many learned that freedom of speech and assembly are fundamental rights in America, for now anyway. Sure they are. However, there is a very fine line between free assembly and harassment. People with a valid point do not need to physically buttonhole passersby and foist hate literature on them. These people were. The physical buttonholing constitutes harassment, since it doesn’t give people a chance not to listen. Robin ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/90 "2004-04-21T10:54:27Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Sure they are. However, there is a very fine line between free assembly and harassment. People with a valid point do not need to physically buttonhole passersby and foist hate literature on them. These people were. The physical buttonholing constitutes harassment, since it doesn’t give people a chance not to listen. > > Robin Fraid not, that constitutes irritation with a POV that you disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/91 "2004-04-21T11:08:36Z")
> [@county](#): > > Fraid not, that constitutes irritation with a POV that you disagree with. Um, no. I would have been irritated had they merely been there. They were **physically** grabbing people as they walked past in order to force literature on them. **THAT** is what constitutes harassment. And that is the last I’ll say on that subject. Robin ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284/92 "2004-04-21T14:47:46Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Um, no. I would have been irritated had they merely been there. They were **physically** grabbing people as they walked past in order to force literature on them. > > **THAT** is what constitutes harassment. > > And that is the last I’ll say on that subject. > > Robin Well, ok, I’ll do the talking then. See, when they “physically” grab people, well, that is assault, not harassment. And if they said, well, take this literature or I’ll hit you, well, that would be assault also. Although physically grabbing people is not something you see that often in demonstrations etc, you know, except by the police. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-at-school-today/240284.md?page=4)