# What I Learned In Church Today **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 9, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140 "2002-06-09T21:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/1 "2002-06-09T21:17:26Z")
I, as I am wont to do on most Sundays, took myself over to my friendly neighborhood Episcopal church this morning. Our music director met me in the breezeway between the parish hall and the church and handed me some music. He said this is the latest hymn from the Southern Baptist Church. With apologies in advance to all you good SB dopers (ya gotta admit it’s good satire/parody) here goes: **Glorious Submission** To the tune of that SB hymn “Blessed Assurance” **Men sing the verses** **Verse 1** Gracious submission that is God’s plan: a wife should be silent while serving her man. Cooking his food and washing his clothes, this our faith, dear, so that’s how it goes. **Women sing the chorus** Gracious submission this is my song, serving my husband all the day long. Gracious submission this is my song, I kiss his feet and just tag along. **Verse 2** Men have decided, Scripture agrees, you must obey, so get down on your knees. Ladies are mothers, who work day and night, serving their husbands, and that’s their delight. **Chorus** **Verse 3** Men are the leaders, that is the way; Ladies, you must your husbands obey. Meek and submissive a lady should be; then she’ll be almost as godly as me. **Chorus** ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/2 "2002-06-09T22:05:58Z")
_is_ it satire? Or is it a genuine hymn accepted by mainstream southern baptists? I suspect the former. Clarification, please. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/3 "2002-06-09T22:15:36Z")
The sad reality is that although I’m sure many Southern Baptists wouldn’t admit it, it is not much of an exaggeration of the SBC position, which individual churches may or may not agree with. The fundamentalist, evangelical forces within the church have been gaining power and forcing the more moderate and liberal folks out of positions of power for several years. The recent history of the SBC, including prohibiting women from serving as pastors, passed in 2000, and a 1998 ruling that “submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband”, led President Jimmy Carter to sever ties with the organization. ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/4 "2002-06-09T23:14:23Z")
**Qadgop** since I am not now nor ever have been SB (except as a kid I went to the local SB church vacation bible school, they had the best snacks after all) I really can’t say that it’s true but **Homebrew** makes a couple of good points. Sad thing is, if what I read in the local newspaper about the SBC and I believe they are meeting this week is true, then this parody/satire may have more truth in it than I thought. Anyway, it got some yucks from my SBC neighbors, so maybe things ain’t as bad as they seem. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/5 "2002-06-10T00:15:47Z")
Is that _REALLY_ for real? Glorious Submission?? For the first time in a very long time, I am utterly SPEECHLESS! ---
**Author:** ![grettle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@grettle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grettle)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/6 "2002-06-10T00:44:11Z")
wow. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/7 "2002-06-10T00:59:27Z")
As a born and bred Recovering Southern Baptist, I think the hymn is a paradoy but the idea is not. Even so, one of the main things about Southern Baptist churces is that each one is independent. A given church might belong to the Southern Baptist Convention, but is not bound to blindly follow. Southern Baptists pride themselves on independence; if a wife “submits” to her husbanc, it is because she believes it to be the right thing to do and NOT because she is commanded to do so. I won’t debate the mind set that would lead a woman to believe that submission is well and good. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/8 "2002-06-10T01:05:05Z")
I wasn’t a Baptist, but a member of the Church of Christ, another fundamentalist denomination (actually, they claim not to be a denomination), and although this is worded differently than they would, yes, it’s not too far from what I was taught and what my father still expect of me. And doesn’t get, which leads to some differences of opinion from time to time. They are shocked that I serve my church as a deacon, since a woman in such a position is unthinkable at their church. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/9 "2002-06-10T01:06:06Z")
The OP, **Glorious Submission** is a satire of the hymn [Blessed Assurance](http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/l/blesseda.htm), which is included in the 1991 Baptist Hymnal, the most updated Southern Baptist hymnal of which I am aware. **Blessed Assurance** is a hymn included in Southern Baptist hymnals, but **Glorious Submission** is not. **swampbear** , The Southern Baptist Convention is holding its [annual meeting](http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esbcannualmeeting%2Eorg%2F&id=13) this week on June 11 and 12 in St. Louis. Also, the 2000 prohibition to which **Homebrew** is referring may be found in the [2000 Baptist Faith and Message](http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp). The prohibition against women as head pastors is in section VI, The Church, and the statement above quoted by **Homebrew** that a woman should “submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband” is found in section XVIII, The Family. (Section XV, The Christian and the Social Order, may also be of interest, but it should probably be discussed in a separate thread.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/10 "2002-06-10T02:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > one of the main things about Southern Baptist churces is that each one is independent. A given church might belong to the Southern Baptist Convention, but is not bound to blindly follow. But presumably a local congregation can get kicked out of the SBC for, say, hiring a woman pastor (Sec. VI. The Church), or forthrightly condoning homosexuality or abortion (Sec.XV. The Christian and the Social Order)? I mean, that’s generally the purpose of writing down a document such as the Baptist Faith and Message: to be able to say who’s on the bus and who’s off the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/11 "2002-06-10T03:58:45Z")
It reminds me of the Ladies Against Feminism Site: [www.ladiesagainstfeminism.org](http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.org) Please be kind-the owner is a friend of mine. ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/12 "2002-07-16T01:29:41Z")
The sad truth is that many churches are like this. It’s not so blatant, but in the subtle lessons they teach everyday. Sad, sad, sad that women are buying it. What I’m wondering is the reason behind the subjugation of women. I am actually an ex-mormon and the sexism in that church was what made me leave. Other things that I discovered made me run screaming as far as I possibly could, but that is not the issue. I am actually working on a book about it, and how being raised this way has hindered my own growth and maturity as a woman. It goes a little deeper than that, but that’s the gist. I think that such propaganda can cause some serious issues. Women that are taught to be this way end up being “easy prey” to seducers, cheats, and rapists because they aren’t taught that they have a say in the matter of sex, and that they are not as good as even the men who would take advantage of them. I could just be placing false blame but I also think it has led to a lot of my insecurities about being a strong woman in such an environment, why I do things like inadvertantly play stupid around guys I have liked so that they wouldn’t be threatened. Let me know what you all think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Girlbysea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Girlbysea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlbysea)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/13 "2002-07-16T02:25:34Z")
Oh, we Southern Baptist have you all fooled!!! We only tell you what’s in a song! Not what goes on behind closed doors… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/14 "2002-07-16T02:28:28Z")
Let’s not paint with too broad a brush here. My church has two women teaching pastors, women elders, women on the board of directors and countless women in leadership positions throughout the church. Perhaps not to this extent, but women in leadership positions is becoming more common in non-denominational evangelical Christian churches. What I learned in Church this Sunday: love, treasure and appreciate your spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Girlbysea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Girlbysea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlbysea)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/15 "2002-07-16T02:34:56Z")
Yes to Lorenzo!!! ---
**Author:** ![caterpillar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@caterpillar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caterpillar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-i-learned-in-church-today/113140/16 "2002-07-16T20:40:42Z")
Hallelujah, to your faith! No, really, I hate to sound cynical, I really think that is great. The thing you must remember is that your religion is the minority, and not everyone is learning such things.