# What I'd like to see if universal healthcare is implemented **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 26, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360 "2009-07-26T22:40:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/21 "2009-07-27T01:25:17Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Frankly, I think analyzing health care as one more market good is foolhardy. With respect, **IdahoMauleMan** ’s post reads like a _reductio ad absurdum_ to me. I think patients make terrible consumers, because of information and power differentials. Right. The people paying for a service, and making a choice about what to buy, shouldn’t have any say in it. They’re too dumb. But that’s only for healthcare. Apparently it doesn’t apply to buying cars, washing machines, a house, food or a back massage. ‘Information and Power Differentials’, whatever that means, points to an obvious solution. Have somebody you don’t know, and who has no interest in your personal outcome, decide what’s best for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/22 "2009-07-27T01:26:17Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Any more takers? Marriage tax for women older than 35. Having babies that late increases odds of Down Syndrome and/or other expensive complications. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/23 "2009-07-27T01:32:25Z")
Pointing to imperfect information in a market is not the equivalent of calling consumers dumb. Arguing that some markets for good are different from others is not self-evidently silly. And information and power differentials don’t need scare quotes. Aside from your sarcasm, do you have an argument? You don’t believe these market problems exist, or you don’t believe they matter, or what? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/24 "2009-07-27T01:33:43Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > Marriage tax for women older than 35. Having babies that late increases odds of Down Syndrome and/or other expensive complications. Good one, though I’d say childbearing tax on \>35. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/25 "2009-07-27T01:33:50Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Heh, I think you overlooked an even better way of attacking this issue. The point isn’t to tax things that you already were predisposed against, especially lower-class pathologies that people dislike anyway. The trick is to find unhealthy things to tax that liberals _like_. Who won the last two elections? Oh yeah. Not you. That said… > [@](#): > > Bacon taxes. 200-300% bacon taxes. Under UHC, heart attacks drive up my tax bill, and this negative externality should be redressed with a tax. OK. > [@](#): > > Speed limits need to be lowered further, and enforced. Accident treatments, except when the people die immediately, are expensive. That’s pretty radical. > [@](#): > > Heavier law enforcement efforts against illegal drugs, and stricter penalties for people who use them. You have no idea how many ER visits are due to drug overdoses, and that’s coming out of my wallet. Heavier?! What are you going to do, have the death penalty for poisoning oneself? We should put them in psych treatment, not prison. > [@](#): > > Loud concerts also need to be taxed. Can’t ban them - that’s free speech - but we should address the externalities of treatment for long-term hearing loss. This is actually a very good idea. > [@](#): > > (this one is reaching) Organic food has a higher case of contaimination and parasite load, which costs money to treat. Organic food should be taxed. Oh good lord. Yes, that’s reaching. I’ll take the bugs (I assume you mean parasites of the plants, not of the consumer). We should tax non-organic farming for the water pollution, which has downstream effects. How much breast cancer is linked to old DDT? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/26 "2009-07-27T01:34:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > The idea is to make exercise a part of people’s daily life growing up, so it doesn’t seem so weird to go for a jog or shoot some hoops when you’re 35. Exercise tends to begat more exercise. Some kids would angrily fight it tooth and nail every year, but the average would rise significantly, I think. I can’t speak for the rest of the board, but I have mixed feelings about this. One the one hand, I’m not fond of government mandates, but on the other it doesn’t seem too bad to have kids exercise through 12th grade and if it has medical and monetary benefits then…I don’t know. > [@](#): > > Water, milk, whole grain breads and tortillas, beef and chicken (and fish if it makes financial sense), vegetables, fruit. You know, _food_. As opposed to Taco Bell, Pepsi Cola, and IFH frozen pizza. > Schools and doctors pay attention to them, and some individuals do, too. And our knowledge of what’s good for you and what isn’t has never been better. I guess that doesn’t sound too bad. Frankly a tasty lunch was one of the high points of going to school and I was afraid you’d be advocating serving good for you, but horrible tasting, food. Although I don’t a treat every now and again would be a bad thing. > [@](#): > > It was banned until a few years ago, so it’s definitely not a constitutional thing. Yeah, sometimes I forget how much easier it is to regulate speech on TV and the radio than it is to regulate other types of speech. But again, unless the adds contribute to higher costs I don’t see the need to ban them. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/27 "2009-07-27T01:46:45Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I guess that doesn’t sound too bad. Frankly a tasty lunch was one of the high points of going to school and I was afraid you’d be advocating serving good for you, but horrible tasting, food. Although I don’t a treat every now and again would be a bad thing. No, a treat every once in awhile is absolutely not a bad thing. I eat junk food and drink soda every once in awhile. But _every once in awhile_ is very key in that statement. In my school years, we went from having pizza every Friday in elementary school, to a couple times a week in middle school, to every single day in high school. After I graduated I started hearing stories of Coke and Taco Bell and Pizza Hut in the lunchroom every day. > [@Nobody](#): > > But again, unless the adds contribute to higher costs I don’t see the need to ban them. I’ve heard, anecdotally, that pharm companies’ advertising budgets balooned to many times their R&D budgets over the last several years. I don’t know for sure if this is true or not, but it seems like any advertising would ad to their costs, which they’re not going to eat; they’re going to pass them off to the consumer (who probably used to be called “the patient” in their field.) ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/28 "2009-07-27T01:48:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Pointing to imperfect information in a market is not the equivalent of calling consumers dumb. Arguing that some markets for good are different from others is not self-evidently silly. And information and power differentials don’t need scare quotes. > > Aside from your sarcasm, do you have an argument? You don’t believe these market problems exist, or you don’t believe they matter, or what? There are information and power differentials everywhere. When you order food in a restaurant, when you buy a used car, and when you buy stuff on Ebay. The information asymmetry in the latter is astronomical, and yet 10s of billions of dollars are now transacted in that market on a routine basis. Via voluntary transactions that occur between consenting parties. That market should technically not exist if ‘information and power differentials’ made the risk of a consumer decision too great to bear. My argument is that your argument is ridiculous on its face. It is indeed self-evidently silly. You seem to assert that power of decision-making should be taken out of the hands of consumers because some Rubicon of ‘Information and Power’ differential has been crossed. Why that line suddenly appeared in the healthcare industry, and not in any of the other industries or markets I mentioned, is unclear. And decision-making should be placed with whom? Appointed officials who rule from on high, like the NICE Board in Britain? Like the FDA? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/29 "2009-07-27T01:49:16Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > P.E. class every single day, all 13 years of public school. Take a look at some of the threads about what sorts of things people did in P.E. in schools (and what kind of hell it was for non-athletic kids) and you’ll see why this alone isn’t an answer. P.E. needs a major big time revamp, not just “oh, for a few weeks we’ll play Dance Dance Revolution” but a complete overhaul. Because while the “teamwork” skills that come from trooping everyone out to play softball are all nice and good, it’s not _physical_ for most of the kids (standing in the outfield = standing) and it’s not _education_. > [@](#): > > No more seeing an MD for boner and allergy pills. You really should see someone more like a nurse or even a pharmacist for this kind of stuff. For refills, sure. But what someone may think is allergies could easily be something else that requires something other than a prescription for Zyrtec or whatever. And if someone’s penis stops working properly, the answer really shouldn’t ever be throw blue pills at it as a first step, but finding out why, as there can be serious underlying medical reasons for erectile dysfunction, and they should be treated properly, which may or may not include ED drugs. Otherwise, I think you’re on point. Or I did, till we got to: > [@](#): > > Water, milk, whole grain breads and tortillas, beef and chicken (and fish if it makes financial sense), vegetables, fruit. You know, _food_. As opposed to Taco Bell, Pepsi Cola, and IFH frozen pizza. Milk is not necessarily a healthy drink, and for non-caucasian kids, given the prevalence of lactose intolerance, it shouldn’t be on the menu at all. Fish is certainly healthier than beef, as is lean pork. Nix the beef altogether, if you have to serve meat at all. It would be more healthful and ecologically sound to make as many school lunches meat-free as possible, when it comes down to it. (Not to mention more economically sound.) > [@Ruminator](#): > > Marriage tax for women older than 35. Having babies that late increases odds of Down Syndrome and/or other expensive complications. Marriage and childbearing are not reasonably linked, first of all, and second of all, since when do women spawn via parthenogenesis? If we’re penalizing someone advanced maternal age, then both parties involved in the pregnancy need to be anteing up. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/30 "2009-07-27T01:52:43Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > And I think that shutting down people’s liberties because it costs us too much to take care of them is not the right answer to that problem. Most of what the OP said isn’t taking away people’s liberties. Making the kids exercise comes close, but then minors don’t have as many rights as adults (not that I’m necessarily for it). And if we went down the path of taxing non-healthy foods and behaviors we would need to draw a line somewhere, but where to draw it is the question, and the debate over that will delay, or defeat most legislation, with the exception of a state here or there passing a new tax or two. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/31 "2009-07-27T01:57:53Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Take a look at some of the threads about what sorts of things people did in P.E. in schools (and what kind of hell it was for non-athletic kids) and you’ll see why this alone isn’t an answer. P.E. needs a major big time revamp, not just “oh, for a few weeks we’ll play Dance Dance Revolution” but a complete overhaul. Because while the “teamwork” skills that come from trooping everyone out to play softball are all nice and good, it’s not _physical_ for most of the kids (standing in the outfield = standing) and it’s not _education_. > > For refills, sure. But what someone may think is allergies could easily be something else that requires something other than a prescription for Zyrtec or whatever. And if someone’s penis stops working properly, the answer really shouldn’t ever be throw blue pills at it as a first step, but finding out why, as there can be serious underlying medical reasons for erectile dysfunction, and they should be treated properly, which may or may not include ED drugs. > > Otherwise, I think you’re on point. Or I did, till we got to: > > Milk is not necessarily a healthy drink, and for non-caucasian kids, given the prevalence of lactose intolerance, it shouldn’t be on the menu at all. Fish is certainly healthier than beef, as is lean pork. Nix the beef altogether, if you have to serve meat at all. It would be more healthful and ecologically sound to make as many school lunches meat-free as possible, when it comes down to it. (Not to mention more economically sound.) You’re ignoring my points for excuses to push back. Pretending that I’m claiming P.E. is the only answer is patently absurd, considering all the points I made in that same post. It stands to reason that if you’re going to increase it from here and there to every day, every year, you’re also going to revamp it. And FTR I never once played softball in P.E. And who says I’m going to hold kids down and force milk down their throats? The kids who can’t drink it know they can’t drink it and they would be free to choose water or may be tea. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/32 "2009-07-27T02:26:18Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Marriage and childbearing are not reasonably linked, first of all, It’s linked enough statistically and that’s all the tax man needs to justify it. Or use **athelas** ’ suggestion of a child-bearing tax to target the payment burden a little more narrowly. Examples: Property taxes are paid for schools enough though many homeowner couples do not have children. Consumers pay piracy taxes on blank recording media (tapes, CD-ROMs) even though many of them will not use them to pirate copyrighted works. > [@](#): > > and second of all, since when do women spawn via parthenogenesis? If we’re penalizing someone advanced maternal age, then both parties involved in the pregnancy need to be anteing up. And if the “father” is anonymous donor at a sperm bank? Who do we tax then? I nominate taxing Playboy and Penthouse since their “persuasion” is often required at the sperm bank. Seems logical. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/33 "2009-07-27T02:39:14Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > and second of all, since when do women spawn via parthenogenesis? If we’re penalizing someone advanced maternal age, then both parties involved in the pregnancy need to be anteing up. True, but maternal age matters a lot more and would be taxed accordingly. I think by the way that we should step back and realize that all these mandates, including mine, are not unreasonable under a UHC system. If I’m paying for your healthcare, it is my concern how your lifestyle affects how much I’m paying - even free marketers, if forced into a government provided system, agree that externalities matter. What these draconian plans do show is that UHC will effectively make much of our personal behavior a matter of public policy. Now some more judgmental people will jump at the chance to tax behaviors they dislike (in this thread, mainly lower-class behavior like smoking and junk food), and consider this a benefit. I’m trying to show that the sword cuts both ways, and whatever cultural group you belong to, there’s stuff you do that will be taxed by this logic - feminists will be hit by taxes on older mothers, for example. The point is however that greater public control of our private activities is a logical consequence of UHC, and it is something we need to take into account when evaluating it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/34 "2009-07-27T02:40:47Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > You seem to assert that power of decision-making should be taken out of the hands of consumers because some Rubicon of ‘Information and Power’ differential has been crossed. Why that line suddenly appeared in the healthcare industry, and not in any of the other industries or markets I mentioned, is unclear. It is, as you suggest, a spectrum. Markets are more or less efficient and fair at allocating goods from market to market. Grain? Excellent. National defense? Not so hot. The provision of medical care is somewhere in the middle. In our actual health care industry, there are two poorly-functioning markets: the market for insurance, and the market for care. But I was making a theoretical point about the intrinsic problems in the market for the latter. First, the extent of the information asymmetry between consumer and provider is much wider than most industries. Virtually no patient is going to second-guess his doctor’s recommendations, or pay out of pocket for a second opinion (when that is even possible). Second, many health decisions have to be made under conditions not conducive to market negotiation. Negotiating over treatment for injury or disease is basically negotiation under duress. And third, behavioral biases play a larger role in health care than in many other markets. Availability heuristics, optimism bias, and a few others are especially pernicious in health decisions. Is health care unique in its market failures? Nope. Lots of markets have problems. The question is just how bad those problems have to get before we decide to intervene with government action. > [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > And decision-making should be placed with whom? Appointed officials who rule from on high, like the NICE Board in Britain? Like the FDA? We have a hybrid system now. Patients make some decisions. Doctors make some decisions. Insurance companies make some decisions. And government actors make some decisions. I don’t think any of those parties should have complete control. But I think we can shift things around a bit. Medicare has been pretty successful, if a little stingy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/35 "2009-07-27T02:57:56Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > What these draconian plans do show is that UHC will effectively make much of our personal behavior a matter of public policy. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/draconian](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/draconian) I knew the term had been watered down, but really! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/36 "2009-07-27T03:56:27Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Because the marginal effect of the provision of universal care on risk-taking behavior is a drop in the bucket compared to the other factors that cause obesity. Of course. It is cheaper to eat crappily than to eat well. Thus UHC is unlikely to worsen the obesity rate. If we have enough doctors yelling at patients to cut out the junk, maybe it can even improve it. > [@](#): > > In any case, it isn’t even necessary to my argument that UHC eliminates financial incentives to be healthy. That is one consequence of some plans (not necessarily what’s being proposed), to be sure. But what I’m primarily saying is that under UHC, you have to pay for people’s risk-taking behavior. That’s the bullet you bite. If what you say is true, you should be able to point me to a study showing that the uninsured have lower obesity rates and better health than either the poor with Medicaid or those with insurance. I suspect you might be able to do a longitudinal study for similar economic and ethnic backgrounds. That would be convincing. > [@](#): > > Frankly, I think analyzing health care as one more market good is foolhardy. With respect, **IdahoMauleMan** ’s post reads like a _reductio ad absurdum_ to me. I think patients make terrible consumers, because of information and power differentials. And I think commodifying health as if it were interchangeable with choices about what car to drive or what TV to own is naive. So I’m all for shifting the balance in our hybrid system a bit further away from market control. I just recognize that this comes with the unfortunate cost of paying for the risk-taking behavior of others. And I think that shutting down people’s liberties because it costs us too much to take care of them is not the right answer to that problem. I agree with the first part of your paragraph. I fail to see how the ideas in the OP significantly reduce our freedom. Raising taxes on something that kills you? Not that. When I was in high school, 40 years ago, we never had greasy food or soda. It wasn’t exactly gourmet, but I suspect it was healthier than now. There was also no McDonalds within 10 miles at least - and I lived in Queens, not the sticks. I think schools have soda machines for the revenues, yet another way cutting money for education hurts our kids. We don’t allow tobacco ads on TV - limiting marketing of regulated prescription drugs should be a no-brainer. I had PE every day in high school. Would be nice if we had enough money to put it back. I just don’t see how these proposals shut down liberty - unless you are big Pharma, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/37 "2009-07-27T03:59:10Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Now some more judgmental people will jump at the chance to tax behaviors they dislike (in this thread, mainly lower-class behavior like smoking and junk food), and consider this a benefit. I’m pretty certain that there are upper-class people who smoke and eat junk food. And although junk food might be debatable, I would find it hard to debate that smoking directly impacts health-care costs. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/38 "2009-07-27T04:00:22Z")
Cisco, Given the importance you ascribe to diet, and your distrust of advertising, why didn’t you include a ban on advertising for food and drink? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/39 "2009-07-27T04:02:18Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > correlation does not equal causation? > > So if USA implements UHC, it will reduce obesity?!?!? What are you smoking? > > How does UHC encourage a middle-aged slouch to get his fat ass off the couch, throw out the greasy potato chips he’s been munching on, stop watching TV, go outside and shoot some hoops or jog around the neighborhood? > > Unless you’re saying UHC would include liposuction as part of the benefits package. Do European countries pay for liposuction for all their citizens? No wonder Americans want it! The claim was made that UHC would disconnect people from the cost of health care, and so would encourage obesity. Just pointing out that this doesn’t seem to be the case. It might help, though I doubt it, but it certainly won’t hurt. I suspect poverty, the marketing of crap, and the lack of family dinners hurt a lot, far more than health insurance either helps or hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360/40 "2009-07-27T04:05:24Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You’re ignoring my points for excuses to push back. Pretending that I’m claiming P.E. is the only answer is patently absurd, considering all the points I made in that same post. It stands to reason that if you’re going to increase it from here and there to every day, every year, you’re also going to revamp it. And FTR I never once played softball in P.E. > > And who says I’m going to hold kids down and force milk down their throats? The kids who can’t drink it know they can’t drink it and they would be free to choose water or may be tea. I had PE every day in high school. I graduated in 1969. We protested a lot of things; we even had a sit-in in our chem class. We never even imagined that PE was reducing our rights. I can see their problem with your idea though. More PE means more school hours, which means more teachers, which means more cost, which means more :eek::eek::eek:taxes:eek::eek::eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-id-like-to-see-if-universal-healthcare-is-implemented/504360.md?page=3)