I don’t agree.
Tomorrow, I’m voting for Creigh Deeds for Attorney General of Virginia, in large measure because he has a better record on guns than his Republican opponent.
Not overnight, no. But, over the long haul they just might. Like I said, it’ll take more than just dumping your anti-gun position because of what some polls tell you. It would have to be a serious, deliberate effort to change your mindset about guns and gun laws. It might not be easy, but it is possible. The NRA has a good track record of being non-partisan. There are Democrats out there with “A” ratings by the NRA. They heap praise on Democrats when they vote in favor of gun rights.
Not with that attitude they won’t. 
Even if what you say is true, which I’m certainly not willing to stipulate, it still makes sense not to inflame the base of voters against you. Why deliberately piss off a powerful lobby and a huge block of active voters?
Even though the long term affects of attracting pro-gun voters might take a while, the short term affects would be noticable right away. Going to a gun club is like going to a union hall: There’s lots of different people and all kinds of political views are represented. If both parties were pro-gun then the pro-gun vote might just split down the middle instead of going to the Republicans. Wouldn’t that be a good thing for the Democrats?
Change that to read:
Even if what you say is correct, which I’m certainly not willing to stipulate,
I certainly didn’t mean to accuse anyone of dishonesty. Poor word choice on my part.
I inferred no such thing anyway. But I still disagree- the Democratic party has to keep its base intact before trying to make inroads in GOP strongholds. As Howard Dean said, he represents the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.
First off…well, why? Where do you expect the majority of the Democrat’s ‘base’ to go if the Dems start ignorning them? They won’t be going Republican, thats for sure. If they go third party, well, so what? How many folks do you expect are IN the Dems’ base?
Secondly…well, why? Say you lose 10% of your 20 or 30% base…but by doing so you making gains directly from the Republican stronghold…or more likely from the center. Lets say you pick up only what you lost…10%. But that you took that 10% directly from folks who WOULD have voted Republican had you stuck to your base. Do you see that this is a net gain for you, as the 10% you MIGHT lose is not going to vote Republican in this reality?
Maybe its time for you guys to start looking at a new ‘base’ and cut loose some of your fringe wacko’s who are CURRENTLY in your base. The US center is a HUGE pool of voters…much larger than the fringe on either side of the spectrum. Thats kind of why the Republicans pay lip service to their own wacko’s while appealing to the center…cause you know, thats where the votes are.
hehe…like you guys are going to do such a thing, right? ‘Republican lite’ and all that. 
-XT
Registries of guns?!! OMG, say it isn’t so. Next thing you know they will be creating registries of voters, cars, drivers, property owners, and draft age men!! If we are not careful then you might have to get trained to get a gun or show that you have the means for locking up your guns so they aren’t stolen or used by your kids to shoot themeselves.
OK. I’m just being paranoid because the mods have been acting irritable lately. I’m not sure what the rules are on accusations of lying, other than I’m not allowed to do it and ElvisL1ves is. 
With all due respect, it just continues to amaze me that people don’t see how far to the left the democratic party has gone.
Howard Dean is the party chairman! It’s not like he’s marganalized on the sidelines or something. Nancy Pelosi is the house democratic leader. They don’t get much more liberal than the folks you guys have running the show. The Democrats right now are about as liberal a party as this country has ever seen.
Your base is getting more red meat thrown at it by the party than the lion exhibit at the zoo. If anything, the exact opposite thing is what you should be worried about: Your base isn’t going anywhere. It’s the other 80% of the voters you need to worry about. Gun owners are the perfect place to start. It is a non-partisan issue, or at least it should be. Gun owners won’t vote for a party that wants to take thier guns away. Right now, that’s you guys.
As I mentioned before in a previous thread:
Pander to the religious left. And yes, there are those out there whose beliefs make them quite interested in things like equality and social justice and loving your neighbor.
Spiritualism, in one form or another, is here to stay. While the public at large is indeed more secular (or at least less namedropping when it comes to the God stuff), I don’t forsee America becoming a bastion of atheism any time soon.
Yeah, that’s why the GOP “Southern Strategy” was such a dismal failure. What were they thinking, trying to appeal to people who had always voted Democratic and whose fathers and grandfathers had always voted Democratic, ever since Old Abe the Tyrant sent his troops to drag them kicking and screaming back into the Union? :rolleyes:
It’s a good straegy if it’s one part of an overall strategy that also includes getting your agenda across.
First, though, make sure people don’t feel better off. Never ask a question in politics if you don’t know the answer. Having said that:
Very effective. The war is unpopular and this is a powerful image of why.
Not very effective. The Democratic mayor and governor are seen as sharing a large part of the blame for that problem-- especially the fact that people were stranded in NOLA.
Potentially very dangerous. The Democrats have to know that there’s nothing they will be able to do to control the price of gas. And which party would voters suspect as being most likely to raises taxes on gasoline?
Very effective. Bush has said so many stupid things that he left the Dems a veritable gold mine of quotes. There are plenty more where that came from.
Gotta have a credible plan to get them open again. Hint: Raising taxes isn’t a credible plan.
Why copy the baser instincts of the morally reprehensible? The southern strategy was an appeal to southern racism and worked all too well.
Perhaps you would. On the whole, I think most NRA voters would vote GOP with all else equal. There may be spotty inversions but for the most part I would wager the average gun lover is much more comfortable with the Republicans. Those fish ain’t gonna bite, why waste bait on them?
As the price of gas goes up, that tax on gasoline gets all the more insignificant. I’d rather give a nickel to the government than a buck to the Saudis.
I keep hearing double standards. “The Democrats can’t go negative.” Well, not unless we want to win. And Bush’s campaigns were both negative in the extreme and he almost won election. “The Democrats can’t play to their base.” Well, the Republicans do all the time.
First, the frivolous: my fantasy ad for the Democratic candidate. A series of clips of very small and extremely cute children (of a variety of races and genders) of five or six years old, each solemnly reciting one of the basic rules of morality you learn in kindergarten: “Stealing is wrong.” “Don’t tell lies.” “Clean up after yourself.” “Don’t hurt people.” Following each is a simple white-letters-on-black-screen card explaining a way that President Bush broke these rules.
Now, the serious. I’d like to see the Democratic party showing the country that the Republicans aren’t the only ones who have a deeply held set of moral values. I’d like to see us fighting them on their own ground, speaking out for the things many of us believe to be morally right. I’d like to hear from liberal Christians speaking from their faith about democratic positions. I’m tired of feeling like the Republicans have morals and the Democrats don’t. Let’s hear about which party has its foot on the necks of the poor, women, gays, etc, and which party is currently trying to make life better for them. I want to hear Democrats talking about right and wrong, not fudging and sidestepping but looking straight in the camera and speaking for the American left.
Think of it this way Bob. Say you use your ‘3) A gasoline station selling gas > $3/gal’. Say it works. What are you going to do once you are elected when gas prices rise? The US government really has little control of the price of gas at the pump. So…where will the egg be if you harp on this and the price of gas goes up? Conversely, how will you stop it FROM going up? Subsidies? Threats of force to oil producing nations? Wishful thinking?
True enough. However, the Republicans ALSO have an effective plank thats appealing to a lot of American’s. Thats the part you don’t seem to be getting…they are hitting you with a double whammy, while you (and a lot of Dems on this board) are only saying basically ‘Republicans bad’ and ‘We ain’t Republicans’. Negative tactics will only take you so far if you don’t present the American people with something new.
-XT
Others have weighed in on this topic. But I will as well.
Every election cycle, the NRA endorses a great many Democrats in legislative, congressional, and state office races. Not quite as many as Republicans, surely, but a good number. There are also a number of races where the NRA does not endorse one candidate over the other because both are equally good for gun rights.
The NRA would dearly love to see more races where they could endorse the Democrat, or where both candidates were equally good for gun rights. That would mean that they had a winning issue that wasn’t under serious threat from any sizable party or faction. It would mean that they won their argument.
So yes, the Democrats have a real shot with the NRA and its voters. And I’ve seen scores of races that prove this beyond doubt.
The NRA has endorsed Deeds over his opponent.
What the hell does that have to do with my post? I just said that if asked your average Joe on the street which party is more likely to raise taxes on gas, which one would he pick? I think you know the answer.
You’re not hearing that from me. But I will point out that going negative does tend to work better for the Republicans because their base is bigger. That doesn’t mean the Dems shouldn’t use negative ads to point out Repbublican weakness. Hell, it’s not like they DIDN’T do that in '04. You act as though this is some new tactic for the Democrats. The negative ads are the easy ones. And note that that’s ALL certain posters here think has to be done. Wrongo!!
I’m just saying that the tax on gas is nearly insignificant. Every time anything happens to disrupt supply, the gas goes up over a buck a gallon. I don’t think anyone is losing sleep over an odd nickel the government might tack on, it pales into insignificance when compared to the overall increases that we’ve seen lately. Joe Sixpack has plenty of worries much more meaningful than the tax on gasoline.
It’s not an either-or proposition. Criticize the Republicans heartily. Let them come back with their press conferences full of blank posters and saying, “The Democrats HAVE no plan! THIS is their plan!”
When they do that, have a goddamn plan to point to. Then you can say, “Actually, we DO have a plan. And OUR plan will work. Yours has sucked donkey balls for five years. Ours is going to get us out of the mess that you made. Here are the details. Criticize if you want, but your party’s credibility on the criticism front is pretty much shot, and our plan is well-backed by these respected figures.”
Without this last stage, a lotta lotta lotta voters are going to say, “Hmm, the Republicans are right–the Democrats don’t even have a plan.” And they’ll not vote, or will vote Republican.
We don’t, all due respect, need the Debasers. We can win this thing by pulling in the wishywashy, the folks who would be energized and emboldened by a plan that will educate their children, reduce poverty, and protect the environment, while restoring dignity and honor to the White House. Let’s give them something to be energized about.
Daniel
- Outsourcing
- Ken Lay and ENRON (guilt by association) and not so veiled “hints” fo cronyism
- Flipflops - We’re gonna get Osama - He isn’t important anymore (marginalized) - He’s important again - flipflop flip flop
- A liberal (haha) dash of lies, puported lies, contradictions, purported contradictions, and selective soundbites.
- The reasons for the Iraq war and how it conflicts with what we now know - They have weapons and we know where they are - where are they.
- Torture
12)Govewrnment spying on libery records - Katrina again.
- Assorted whisper campaigns and personal attacks
- FEMA again.
Etc etc etc
In short, take Rove’s playbook and play just as dirty.
They are already armed felons and crazies. California is at the forefront of most anti gun legislation, registration, and various other hindrances. The end result? Gangs can get pistols, automatic weapons, whatever they want. All it takes is cash. However, legal buyers are watched and recorded and registered and hassled and can only buy a set number of guns per year. Concealed carry permit? Forget it unless you are rich or a famous actor - SOME people are more equal than others. New York was even worse as I remember it.
I’m a Democrat and am a pro-gunner.