# What if a full body burka was adopted by a large US minority?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 30, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370 "2010-03-30T19:33:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/21 "2010-03-31T01:42:33Z")
The fashion industry would fight it to the death.
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### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/22 "2010-03-31T02:21:15Z")
> [@Polerius](#):
>
> I’m a bit shocked at this nonchalant attitude. So, if the US becomes a place where you look out your window and see everyone in full body and face cover, you go to the mall and you see everyone in full body and face cover, you go to the local restaurant and you see everyone in full body and face cover, etc, and your only reaction is “I can just stay home”? Personally, I’d get the fuck out of the country (assuming of course other countries haven’t fallen for this new “fad”)
Well, I’m pretty nonchalant as well, mainly because the scenario you propose seems fairly unlikely. Amongst the wide array of Future Possibilities That I Should Maybe Lose Sleep Over, this one is pretty low on the list.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/23 "2010-03-31T02:30:05Z")
> [@Duckster](#):
>
> The fashion industry would fight it to the death.
I kid you not, one of my childhood friends (in Pakistan) has a successful business designing fashionble hijab for a particular sects (Aga Khanis and Dawoodi Bohras).
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### Author:  [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/24 "2010-03-31T02:36:27Z")
Wouldn’t really bother me. I’d be perfectly OK with it, and if the law wasn’t OK with it, then it’s an unconstitutional law…it had BETTER be OK with it. If we ever outlaw that, we’ve stopped being the USA. And, of course, I do think that for security reasons, law enforcement should be able to remove face coverings for ID purposes.
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### Author:  [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/25 "2010-03-31T02:44:29Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#):
>
> Well, I’m pretty nonchalant as well, mainly because the scenario you propose seems fairly unlikely. Amongst the wide array of Future Possibilities That I Should Maybe Lose Sleep Over, this one is pretty low on the list.
I agree that this scenario is almost impossible to occur, so I don’t worry that it will. I just wanted to see how people would feel _if_ it came to pass, just to see if there is a threshold beyond which they would say “enough”. Since people so far in this thread seem to not care if 100% of the population is doing this, it’s pretty clear that they have no such threshold, and it’s also pretty clear that they won’t care if a small percentage of the country does it. The 100% scenario, while extremely unlikely, was meant to set a baseline for people’s attitudes on this issue.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/26 "2010-03-31T02:47:28Z")
Isn’t Cafe Society the preferred forum for SF or Alternate History?
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/27 "2010-03-31T03:10:20Z")
> [@Polerius](#):
>
> Assume a large US minority (religious or otherwise) decides to start wearing the equivalent of a full-body burka (which also covers the face)
>
> For example, say the Mormons (which are around [13 million](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)) decide one day that Jesus wants them to all wear a full-body cover (both men and women)
Less than one half that number of LDS reside in the USA.
> [@](#):
>
> This thread is not about the Mormons: imagine any group in the US that is on the order of tens of millions and that decides that all its members should start wearing a full-body and face cover. Also assume that most if not all its members adhere to the new policy.
>
> [ul]
> [li]Would you be OK with that?[/li][li]Would the law/government be OK with that?[/li][/ul]
I don’t think it’s my business.
I don’t think it’s the government’s business either.
> [@](#):
>
> From all the discussions about the Muslim body and facial coverings for women, and how the French/Canadians/etc are handling this issue, I think one thing to keep in mind is how would our society be altered/affected if a large number of people started roaming the streets in full-body covers?
I’ve been places where a large number of people are roaming the streets in nun’s habits. Didn’t seem to bother anyone.
Yes, the number of Muslim women in the US, and likely France and Canada, are miniscule, and so even if every single one of them wore a burka it wouldn’t amount to much. But, let’s keep this discussion away from the particulars of the Muslim minority and look at the principle of allowing large groups of people in full-body (and face) covers to go out in public.
As I asked above
[ul]
[li]Would you be OK with that?[/li][li]Would the law/government be OK with that?[/li][/ul]
[/QUOTE]
I’ve read [one piece](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Nuns-the-word-on-health-care-reform-88832862.html) asserting that there aere 59,000 Catholic nuns in the US. While not in the tens of millions, it’d be hard to argue that nuns are not a visible presence.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/28 "2010-03-31T03:23:43Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#):
>
> A problem I would see is that it would be pretty easy to don a burka and run into a group of people wearing a burka and hide. It would take quite a bit of time to get everyone in a large crowd to take off their burkas long enough to ID people…
Even if they had ID, how would you know who you were looking for?
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### Author:  [@Silvorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silvorange)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/29 "2010-03-31T03:32:28Z")
Lots of places have laws limiting or prohibiting the wearing of masks.
[http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html](http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html)
I’m pretty sure that people 16 and up can’t legally wear them where I live, but it’s not really enforced. My husband bought beer on Halloween while wearing a skull mask.
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### Author:  [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/30 "2010-03-31T03:45:09Z")
> [@Silvorange](#):
>
> Lots of places have laws limiting or prohibiting the wearing of masks.
> [CND: State Codes Related To Wearing Masks](http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html)
1. I’m glad the laws are more in line with my views on this subject than with the majority of respondents in this thread
2. Most of those laws, which I briefly checked out, seem not to have an exemption for religious purposes. If that’s the case, how do women wearing burkas fit into this? Are they breaking these laws?
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/31 "2010-03-31T04:28:28Z")
Mormons _are_ supposed to wear full-body coverings, just not over the face. For that matter, plenty of people cover their entire bodies during wintertime in colder parts of the US.
Body covering thus presumably isn’t the issue; this is just about covering the face.
Even as to that, during cold winters, lots of people wear scarves, hats, earmuffs, sunglasses, so heavily covered that their identities are obscured. It looks like these people are breaking the law in many states, but I’d be shocked if anyone had ever actually been prosecuted on this basis.
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### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/32 "2010-03-31T04:42:05Z")
> [@Polerius](#):
>
> I’m a bit shocked at this nonchalant attitude. So, if the US becomes a place where you look out your window and see everyone in full body and face cover, you go to the mall and you see everyone in full body and face cover, you go to the local restaurant and you see everyone in full body and face cover, etc, and your only reaction is “I can just stay home”? Personally, I’d get the fuck out of the country (assuming of course other countries haven’t fallen for this new “fad”)
Well, by the standards of your OP, it’s hard _not_ to be nonchalant about it. Some group of people decide to start dressing a certain way? Big deal.
Now, however, if the dress were associated in some way with a brand of extremism that in its worst manifestations was associated with violence and repression, and all of a sudden tens of millions of people started to adhere to it…well, then I might be concerned.
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### Author:  [@Silvorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silvorange)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/33 "2010-03-31T04:49:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#):
>
> Mormons _are_ supposed to wear full-body coverings, just not over the face.
No, they are just supposed to dress modestly.
“In everyday living, immodest clothing such as short shorts, miniskirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire are not appropriate. Men and women—including young men and young women—should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low cut in the front or back or revealing in any other manner. Tight pants, tight shirts, excessively baggy clothing, wrinkled apparel, and unkempt hair are not appropriate. All should avoid extremes in clothing, hairstyle, and other aspects of appearance. We should always be neat and clean, avoiding sloppiness or inappropriate casualness.” (From the pamphlet _For The Strength of Youth_, found at [lds.org](http://lds.org))
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/34 "2010-03-31T05:20:50Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> Well, by the standards of your OP, it’s hard _not_ to be nonchalant about it. Some group of people decide to start dressing a certain way? Big deal.
>
> Now, however, if the dress were associated in some way with a brand of extremism that in its worst manifestations was associated with violence and repression, and all of a sudden tens of millions of people started to adhere to it…well, then I might be concerned.
You mean like wearing blue jeans, outdoors jackets, and ballcaps?
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### Author:  [@phi2dao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phi2dao)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/35 "2010-03-31T05:56:23Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> Well, by the standards of your OP, it’s hard _not_ to be nonchalant about it. Some group of people decide to start dressing a certain way? Big deal.
>
> Now, however, if the dress were associated in some way with a brand of extremism that in its worst manifestations was associated with violence and repression, and all of a sudden tens of millions of people started to adhere to it…well, then I might be concerned.
In that case though, isn’t your problem with the extremism and not the dress?
Would you have a problem with millions of people wearing a particular tie if that tie was associated with a nasty brand of extremism?
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/36 "2010-03-31T08:55:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> faces may help communication, but its not like we can’t get by on voice and body gesture.
Not dhh (deaf/hard of hearing) people who speechread I get most of what I “hear” from speechreading.
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### Author:  [@GreatStuffMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreatStuffMan)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/37 "2010-03-31T09:03:25Z")
Just like everybody else has already stated, I wouldn’t care as long as law enforcement officials and the likes had the right to demand of people to take it off for ID purposes.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/38 "2010-03-31T13:26:56Z")
I worked in the semiconductor industry for many years. Workers in a wafer fab wear
“bunny suits” that pretty much are the same as burqas, although they are a little tighter fitting. At first, everyone looks alike, but you’d be surprised how quickly you become able to recognize people by non-facial cues. Height, build, the way someone walks. Not as easily as otherwise, but not too difficult.
As for the OP, there are some serious safety issues with burqas, as they limit vision considerably. I’m not sure that a driver wearing one would be able to see well enough. Otherwise, knock yourself out. When I went to Catholic schools, the nuns pretty much wore burqas, except for the face covering.
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/39 "2010-03-31T14:41:31Z")
> [@StusBlues](#):
>
> Relax, mate. It’s just clothes.
Nope. Clothes are what we wear to keep us warm. You know: food, shelter, clothing. Anything that is an excess of that is open for discussion. When you don something for affectation, society has the right to judge it and put limits on it. And we have the right to have people walk around so that they can be recognized, and can easily be held accountable for their actions. That is the U.S., anyway. If you don’t like it, there’s always places like Saudi Arabia. Pack you stuff and good riddance.
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### Author:  [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-a-full-body-burka-was-adopted-by-a-large-us-minority/534370/40 "2010-03-31T15:57:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I worked in the semiconductor industry for many years. Workers in a wafer fab wear
> “bunny suits” that pretty much are the same as burqas, although they are a little tighter fitting. At first, everyone looks alike, but you’d be surprised how quickly you become able to recognize people by non-facial cues. Height, build, the way someone walks. Not as easily as otherwise, but not too difficult.
Interesting point. However, don’t bunny suits have visors through which you can see peoples faces?
> [@](#):
>
> As for the OP, there are some serious safety issues with burqas, as they limit vision considerably. I’m not sure that a driver wearing one would be able to see well enough. Otherwise, knock yourself out. When I went to Catholic schools, the nuns pretty much wore burqas, except for the face covering.
“except the face covering”: that is crucial. Without face covering, it’s not a burka, and it’s not a problem.
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