# What if Aaron Burr's conspiracy had succeeded? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238 "2006-06-03T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/1 "2006-06-03T02:29:55Z")
In 1805, Aaron Burr and a few other leading Americans plotted to make an independent state out of the new Western territories of the U.S. Burr probably meant to rule it as his own empire. He even dreamed of conquering the northern Mexican (Spanish) territories and backing a group of _criollos_ who wanted to conquer Mexico. How would history have gone if they had pulled it off? > **[Burr conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_conspiracy)** > > The Burr conspiracy of 1805–1807, was an alleged treasonous plot to have been planned by American politician and former military officer Aaron Burr (1756–1836), in the years during and after his single term as the third vice president of the United States (1801–1805), during the presidential administration and first term of the third president Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826, served 1801–1809). Burr was accused of attempting to use his international connections and support from a cabal of American ... ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/2 "2006-06-03T05:24:40Z")
Would it have meant that the Civil War would have been a West/East struggle or a West/East/South struggle? And they yell about rappers getting into feuds over these things…Burr wanted to start a country! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/3 "2006-06-03T05:27:08Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Would it have meant that the Civil War would have been a West/East struggle or a West/East/South struggle? [/QUOTE] Depends on whether Burr’s empire would have been slave or free territory. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/4 "2006-06-03T05:36:19Z")
[[American Experience | Official Site | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/timeline/index.html+aaron+burr+slavery&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1)]Check]([http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:w9OOpky8qWIJ:](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:w9OOpky8qWIJ:)[url) out 1784. Burr was against slavery. Maybe he’d have jumped into the frey just to grab land from a busied/weakened federal government? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/5 "2006-06-03T05:37:12Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] [[American Experience | Official Site | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/timeline/index.html+aaron+burr+slavery&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1)]Check]([http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:w9OOpky8qWIJ:](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:w9OOpky8qWIJ:)[url) out 1784. Burr was against slavery. [/QUOTE] I could believe that, but linky no worky. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/6 "2006-06-03T05:39:36Z")
Oooooooooookay. Let’s try [this](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/timeline/index.html) again. Hey, check out 1784! ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-aaron-burrs-conspiracy-had-succeeded/359238/7 "2006-06-03T16:09:10Z")
One of the key variables would have been whether Burr decided to make his first move against the Spanish Empire or the United States. Had he decided to base his empire in Spanish Texas, he might have become an earlier-day Sam Houston. An independent Texas would have been no more economically viable in 1807 than it was in the 1840’s, and Burr might eventually have petitioned for its annexation into the United States and become a national hero, just like Houston. Had he decided to base his empire on the secession of the Mississippi Valley, it’s hard to see anything good resulting. The United States had just threatened war with Napoleonic France and spent millions of dollars to gain control of the Mississippi River, and they would never have tolerated its loss. Burr would have had to seek an alliance with the British in order to have a chance in the ensuing war, and the War of 1812 might have been fought a few years earlier. Burr would have joined the British, the Canadians, and the northwestern Indians on our “enemies list”. I _doubt_ that he would have been enough to tip the balance, but it’s hard to be sure. If he succeeded, we would have had a Balkanized North America, at least for a while, with “Burrland”, an Indian confederacy, and the United States all in an uneasy coexistence east of the Mississippi River. Regarding slavery, Burr had no personal use for it, but he was never one to stand on principle. (His daughter, by the way, married a gentleman planter from South Carolina.) He would have found it impossible to attract settlers to his empire without it, so it would have been legal.