# What if all continents had been in regular communication since ancient times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053 "2011-04-12T03:22:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/81 "2011-04-25T01:48:11Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Ignoring **pinguin** ’s heartfelt but implausible hijack about disease, I agree with **smiling bandit** – and I submit that the reason the later diseases appear more terrible to **BrainGlutton** is the increased _population_ (and increased population _density_) at the point the later epidemics occurred. Actually, I doubt the population north of the Rio Grande was much higher in Columbus’ day than in Socrates’. (South of the Rio Grande is a different story – civilization, you know, and not just that half-civilization Mound Builder thing; it’s a huge force-multiplier for human reproduction.) The population of **Europe** was much higher in Columbus’ day than in Socrates’, if that’s what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/82 "2011-04-25T10:38:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, I doubt the population north of the Rio Grande was much higher in Columbus’ day than in Socrates’. Actually, it’s probable that introduction of maize did lead to a marked population increase, starting from (very roughly) 1000 CE or so. Certainly evident in Iroquoian settlement patterns as they added maize to their existing agricultural complex. [QUOTE=pinguin] Show your evidence. I am interested. [/QUOTE] Evidence that Cahokian metalwork was only of native copper without the Mexican smelting & casting etc? Sure. I have several. I’ll give them to you. **Right after** _you_ give \*me \*a cite for their copperworking technology being Mexican in origin. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/83 "2011-04-25T14:34:33Z")
I “assumed” it was Mexican in origin, actually, just for the context of the articles I have read. That’s not a thesis I would deffend at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/84 "2011-04-25T16:40:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Actually, it’s probable that introduction of maize did lead to a marked population increase, starting from (very roughly) 1000 CE or so. Certainly evident in Iroquoian settlement patterns as they added maize to their existing agricultural complex. Interesting. [Maize cultivation in Mesoamerica goes back 7,500 to 12,000 years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize#Origin) – and it took **that long** for it to get to North America – and the potato, of equal antiquity in Peru, did not make it to North America **at all** before the Europeans brought it. Now, if Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Persians, had been sailing around the world in Classical times – both maize and potatoes would have immediately spread everywhere, including North America. And to the Old World – in [_American Colonies: The Settling of North America,_](http://www.amazon.com/American-Colonies-Settling-America-Penguin/dp/0142002100/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303749722&sr=8-1) Alan Taylor notes that the population of Europe, and the population pressure for emigration from Europe to the New World, grew much greater a couple of generations after the Americas were discovered – because the spread of the potato in Europe vastly increased the available food supply. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/85 "2011-04-25T21:40:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Interesting. [Maize cultivation in Mesoamerica goes back 7,500 to 12,000 years](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize#Origin) – and it took **that long** for it to get to North America No, it took that long before it got to the Iroquoians. I’m pretty sure the SW natives had maize sooner. It takes a while to get a variety adapted to local conditions. > [@](#): > > and the potato, of equal antiquity in Peru, did not make it to North America **at all** before the Europeans brought it. And Andeans didn’t grow sunflowers like the Eastern Woodlands tribes did. Your point? > [@](#): > > Now, if Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Persians, had been sailing around the world in Classical times – both maize and potatoes would have immediately spread everywhere, including North America. Possibly. Who can say? ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053/86 "2011-04-27T01:00:33Z")
Potatoes don’t grow well in tropical weather, do they? At least, I doubt ancient species could cross the tropical belt to North America. They come from cold and rainy places in the Andes and also from Chiloe Chile. With respect to transport, that’s not a big deal as it was suggested here with the hypothesis of the Carthagians, Greeks, Romans or perhaps Phoenicians. There were two peoples that made regular traffic from South America to elsewhere. The **Tainos** , Caribs and other Arawak peoples crossed regularly from Venezuela to the Caribbean, and from there to Yucatan and also Florida. All these trips were done in giant dogout canoes that could carry up to 40 people! Other regular traffic was along the Pacific coast from Ecuador to Central America by balsa rafts with sails, which could carry up to 30 tons! See the **Manteno** balsa rafts for info. [http://www.balsaraft.com/](http://www.balsaraft.com/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-continents-had-been-in-regular-communication-since-ancient-times/578053.md?page=4)