# What if all the election-fixing suggested against Trump is proven true? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768 "2018-01-29T23:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/81 "2018-01-31T20:54:34Z")
My question is: doesn’t everybody get to say what they want? If the Russians want to post “HRC is a poopy head” a million times on the internet, don’t they get to? I could go to the Daily Caller web site and start posting, “Theresa May is a poopy head” every day, and maybe the paper would cancel my account, but I would never be charged with a crime, no? So the question of whether foreign propaganda influenced voters is moot, isn’t it? Everybody talks, everybody makes up their own minds. If the propaganda is deemed a hostile act, it is up to the authorities to stop it, but the election results are the election results are the election results. Collusion is a whole other question, as would be vote count tampering. But I don’t think there is anything to be done after the fact about plain ol’ opinion influencing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/82 "2018-01-31T20:58:34Z")
I’d just like to jump in here and say, this thread must really be going the way the OP planned. By page four, we will be in an argument about Shark Week. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/83 "2018-01-31T20:59:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you know [this guy?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18505260&postcount=13) Hahahaha. You’re a hoot. Thanks for thinking about me. Especially in a thread I haven’t participated in. You’re like my Number One Fan. Woohoo! OTOH - What if all the election-fixing suggested against Trump is proven true? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/84 "2018-01-31T21:00:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > More attribution of motives. If these motives are well established, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find a cite or two or three from some Republicans admitting that is why they use the term. My reaction to that is the same as my reaction to someone saying “Democrat Party”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/85 "2018-01-31T21:12:37Z")
_Really?_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/86 "2018-01-31T21:40:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > 1. You concede the colors make no difference, so no reason to change. > 2. Now that I know that Republicans dislike the color red, perhaps similarly to how liberals dislike the term “Democrat Party,” I’m going to start making constant references to the Red Party. Go ahead, adorn us with socialist realist iconography! See if we care! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/87 "2018-01-31T21:51:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > _Really?_ > > Regards, > Shodan It’s Chinatown, Shodan… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/88 "2018-01-31T22:02:41Z")
Enough! Any more personal cracks of any kind and it’s a warning and I’ll close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/89 "2018-01-31T23:03:52Z")
Might as well close the thread anyway; it’s gone off the rails, caught fire, careened down a hill into an orphanage, plowed through a highway, thudded into a river, and exploded. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/90 "2018-02-01T00:08:17Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I know it’s a long shot, but let’s say that: > > 1. Enough evidence is produced to confirm that Trump & co colluded with the Russians and/or others to influence the election > > AND > > 1. It is deemed (somehow? By someone?) that that influence was enough to affect the outcome; if he hadn’t done it, Hillary would have won. And so what? People still made up their own minds and cast their own votes. If they were deceived by false information, that’s on them. I don’t recall complaints about the adulation given to Obama by the European press before the 2008 election. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/91 "2018-02-01T00:39:04Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Might as well close the thread anyway; it’s gone off the rails, caught fire, careened down a hill into an orphanage, plowed through a highway, thudded into a river, and exploded. And then eaten by some passing, hungry trout. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/92 "2018-02-01T01:21:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And then eaten by some passing, hungry trout. I strenuously disagree! Let’s argue about trout to the point that I get warned about personal attacks! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/93 "2018-02-01T01:59:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And then eaten by some passing, hungry trout. Trout? Nonsense! it was a catfish, sirrah! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/94 "2018-02-01T05:27:08Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Trout? Nonsense! it was a catfish, sirrah! Sneaky, whiskered bastards… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/95 "2018-02-01T13:07:26Z")
Back to the colors, I thought they were reversed until the 1980 election and I thought the networks did it because of Nancy Reagan’s fondness for wearing red. Reagan Red just kind of stuck. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/96 "2018-02-01T14:30:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And so what? People still made up their own minds and cast their own votes. If they were deceived by false information, that’s on them. I don’t recall complaints about the adulation given to Obama by the European press before the 2008 election. And if the GOP gave the Russian trolls targeted voter info by way of Cambridge Analytica so they could make sure their misinformation hit exactly the right voters in the right locations, that is all fair game as well? Are we entering a phase of our democracy where literally anything goes? That winning is the only thing that matters, even if it means working with another country to subvert our elections? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/97 "2018-02-01T14:46:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And if the GOP gave the Russian trolls targeted voter info by way of Cambridge Analytica so they could make sure their misinformation hit exactly the right voters in the right locations, that is all fair game as well? > > Are we entering a phase of our democracy where literally anything goes? That winning is the only thing that matters, even if it means working with another country to subvert our elections? Thank you. I believe in democracy because I believe that ultimately the best thing for all of us is for the majority to decide the fate of the country. Even if that differs from the way that I would do things by fiat. My fiat (or anyone’s fiat) will ultimately destabilize society, and so even if I disagree somewhat with the majority, it is ultimately in my best interest for society to be stable. I don’t mind that Republicans win elections. I’ve voted for a equal (technically, one more Democrat than Republican, but it’s an odd number of elections!) number of Democratic and Republican presidential candidates in my life. I mind that they are cheating to win elections that they shouldn’t win, and instituting unpopular policies that are destabilizing society. The ends do not justify the means. The means are going to ruin this country for us. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/98 "2018-02-01T14:59:31Z")
1. There’s already pretty solid evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. The question is whether we will have enough proof to say whether or not it definitely and incontrovertibly gave Trump the victory, and I’d say that there’s about less than a 1% chance of that happening. Even relatively neutral experts are probably going to disagree wildly on the degree to which Putin’s efforts were effective. What we probably can say is that they’ve deepened the animosity and distrust between the two political parties and the different socioeconomic and sociocultural factions in this society, which is exactly what Putin intended to do. Having Trump actually win, and actually having an asset in the most powerful office of the land, was just a big time bonus. 2. Even if experts and the majority of the country agreed that Trump won by virtue of Russian meddling, the Constitution is very clear on the means of both electing (“confirming,” if you will) a president, and removing him from power. Nowhere in the Constitution does it talk about do-overs. Individual states, before certain deadlines can refuse to certify election results and the electors can decide for themselves how to treat questions of an election’s validity, but once the electors select the president…that’s it. Over and out. 3. Even if the people agree that Russia gave Trump the victory, that doesn’t mean they want him removed from office. It’s possible that enough people think he’s doing well enough to remain president, or that they fear President Pence or President Ryan, or a Democrat even more. You’d really have to move the needle enough to make an impeachment happen. Even if Dems win in a landslide in November, there’s no guarantee that there’d be enough support to remove him from office, and a partisan attempt at impeachment could actually end up backfiring and make people sympathetic to the president. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/99 "2018-02-01T15:37:19Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And if the GOP gave the Russian trolls targeted voter info by way of Cambridge Analytica so they could make sure their misinformation hit exactly the right voters in the right locations, that is all fair game as well? I guess that would depend on whether or not that action was illegal or not. Is it? I honestly don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768/100 "2018-02-01T15:46:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess that would depend on whether or not that action was illegal or not. Is it? I honestly don’t know. I don’t know either. It seems unethical as hell though, and dangerous to our democracy. Maybe it should be illegal. It would be nice if something was being done to prevent similar things from happening in future elections, but I’m afraid that those in power don’t really have any incentive to stop this sort of thing since it seems to have helped them this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-all-the-election-fixing-suggested-against-trump-is-proven-true/807768.md?page=6)