# What if Ancient Egypt built the Suez Canal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080 "2018-06-14T10:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/41 "2018-06-21T00:08:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Were they using much bronze? I understood the tools they used to build the pyramids were just copper. And I believe copper was abundant in the Sinai region. The bronze age in Egypt had begun by 3100 bc. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/42 "2018-06-21T01:43:09Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The bronze age in Egypt had begun by 3100 bc. That doesn’t mean they made everything with bronze. But they must have been obtaining tin from somewhere. There are still overland and Mediterranean sea routes that could have been used that didn’t require long travel through the open ocean. Even in the Mediterranean they would have mostly stayed close to shore and only crossed short distances. But it hardly matters, the Egyptians were trading along the land and sea routes in the Mediterranean and didn’t need a canal to do that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/43 "2018-06-21T10:48:18Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > You can’t have a bronze age without ships traveling long distances. Of course you can. Just ask the Chinese. > [@](#): > > Although copper is relatively easy to find the souces of tin are relatively rare and ancient Egypt didn’t have any. You can have [bronze without tin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenical_bronze). And the [closest tin source to Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kestel) was _not_ Italy. Also, note that brass is just as common as bronze in archaeological contexts, so add zinc to the mix. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/44 "2018-06-21T17:44:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Of course you can. Just ask the Chinese. > You can have [bronze without tin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenical_bronze). And the [closest tin source to Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kestel) was _not_ Italy. > > Also, note that brass is just as common as bronze in archaeological contexts, so add zinc to the mix. Closeness isn’t always the same thing as geographic proximity. If it’s a five day sail and a 20 day wagon train, then the former could be called closer despite whatever the actual mileage is. But, certainly, at times Egypt’s domain did expand up almost all of the way to Turkey, so during those periods at least, a Turkish source does seem pretty likely. I’d personally guess that they were taking it all in from all directions, and probably there wasn’t any extra that Egypt would have been willing to skip on to let those carrying it try to barter for a higher price further away. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/45 "2018-06-22T06:38:18Z")
It’s faster to sail to Turkey as well, but it’ll be coasting. But yes, any Bronze Age empire would take all the tin it could get, from anywhere. I was just countering the idea that Egypt _necessarily_ had to go to Western Europe to get it. Hell, an as-yet undiscovered _Southern_ source for Egyptian tin is just as, if not more, probable - certainly, the Kerma culture was[using bronze](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerma#Late_20th_century_to_present). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/46 "2018-06-22T08:51:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > certainly, the Kerma culture was[using bronze](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerma#Late_20th_century_to_present). Kerma antedates the start of the Egyptian bronze age by half a millennium. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/47 "2018-06-22T12:27:11Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Kerma antedates the start of the Egyptian bronze age by half a millennium. Irrelevant to my point. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/48 "2018-06-22T12:31:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …in a much more culturally- and technologically- static age > They definitely traded with the Minoans. And had [cultural](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_frescoes_from_Tell_el-Daba) [exchange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_landscape#Nilotic_Landscapes_in_the_Aegean). And there’s no way to interact with Crete except by sea. Yes, you’re going to say 18th Dynasty, New Kingdom … I’m going to say that kind of thing doesn’t spring up out of thin air, and there are earlier trade contacts dating back to protoPalatial Minoan time. Egypt was never much of a naval culture and whatever it had happened in the New Kingdom. I don’t think links began until the New Kingdom (where sea going culture did develop). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/49 "2018-06-22T12:33:48Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Kerma antedates the start of the Egyptian bronze age by half a millennium. ETA: And you mean _post_dates ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/50 "2018-06-22T13:11:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Egypt was never much of a naval culture and whatever it had happened in the New Kingdom. The construction of the Abydos fleet kind of gives the lie to that line of thinking. As does the import _by sea_ of all that Lebanese cedar - Byblos was essentially an Egyptian colony for most of the Old Kingdom period. I don’t think a culture that makes trade ships you could disassemble, as the Middle Kingdom finds at Mersa Gawasis show, could reasonably be called “never much of a naval culture” > [@](#): > > I don’t think links began until the New Kingdom (where sea going culture did develop). I disagree. Shipping and ships were obviously important to the Egyptians from early on. Look at the importance of the solar barques and ship burials culturally. [New finds](https://www.britishmuseum.org/PDF/Ward.pdf)are shedding more light on the nature of Egyptian seafaring, and not just New Kingdom. I also _think_ you meant they weren’t really a _maritime_ culture, because river and lake shipping is still “naval”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080/51 "2018-06-27T07:54:18Z")
Just a bump to post a [video of a lecture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4) by [Dr. Eric Cline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_H._Cline) (Levantine archaeologist and author of _[1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed)_.) It’s long (1h10m) but it presents a nice insight into Levantine trade and interrelationships pre-BAC. Cline says Levantine tin for bronze came from Afghanistan, BTW. This is about events later than the time period under consideration in the OP, but I, for one, find any and all archaeology of the Levant fascinating, especially stuff about trade, merchants, and the like, so I thought I’d share. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-ancient-egypt-built-the-suez-canal/816080.md?page=2)